My Essex V6 Transplant

[dieselhead123]

Hi mate, I measured the flywheel we used for setting the kit, Capri/Granada one, we used this one as we guessed that they would be easiest to come by, it is 313mm across the teeth from peak to peak. This was only measured with a tape but should be good enough to ascertain if the flywheels are different. I guess they will be the same but we know that there are at least two types fitted to the V6 Essex engines, these we know accept different clutch covers! If the flywheel does turn out to be a different diameter then I will send you the one we have.

If somehow something has gone wrong with the starter hole placement, either at CAD or CNC stage then I only apologise and send you another plate, I can alter the position of the starter 'hole' but it would be good to know where the problem lies so we can alter the plate to ensure that it is correct. We know that the lower starter motor mounting hole is 'correct' as this is shared with a bell housing fixing, but the starter 'hole' and upper mounting stud can be 'swung in' to 'mesh' fully with the ring gear.

A good way of checking the starter 'mesh' would be to operate the starter solenoid, without the main battery feed connected. If you were to re-fit the starter to the plate once the gearbox has been removed then you could do this to check your measurements.

Picture of the flywheel;


TIM

[Leeday]

Cheers Tim,

Been out today, walking to work tomorrow, so hopefully get started on gearbox removal on Tuesday.
Will let you know my findings.

Lee.

[Leeday]

Ok then, Tuesday 20th May 2014 .... another day off work
Jacked up van just enough to get under it for gearbox removal............



...........and removed gearbox:







Measured flywheel across teeth as Tim did, and it measures 310mm (the 3mm difference being the tops are worn off).
So flywheel size is correct, now need to put starter motor in and see how far out the cogs are from each other.
Starter motor in and there is an obvious gap between starter cog and flywheel ring-gear:

[dieselhead123]

Hi Lee, there is definitely a problem there, I will get another plate ordered in the morning.

Would you be able to send the one you have back to me, naturally I will pay the postage, but it would be good to know where the problem has occurred.

I'll PM you the works address.

TIM

[blue estate]

You need a taxi for the starter teeth

[bobdragon12]

I have to ask , but did you not change the starter recently ? It's not the starter that's different to the original ?

[bobdragon12]

Ignore me just read previous page

[conrod]

good to see you are on to it, and that the vendor who sold you the adaptor plate is helping to sort the problem:) Sometimes in life things don't go as planned, and it is the "putting right" that counts!

Going off the eyecrometer it looks to me like the bottom bolt is in the correct position, and that the starter just wants to rotate around it and swing the top in. You can probably get away with using your ring gear again, it does not look that bad. Maybe just take the burrs off the edges of the teeth with a dremel or small die grinder. Even the starter looks okay?

Conrad

[dieselhead123]

The lower starter motor fixing is 'correct', it is shared with a bell housing bolt, it would be a simple task to rotate the starter closer to the crankshaft in the cad drawing, but, it is important to establish at what stage in the production process the error occurred, either CAD or CNC.

We recently modified the upper starter fixing to a stud, this was done to simplify starter fitting, most likely the error occurred there

I will post a print of the CAD in 1:1 scale to you Lee, perhaps you can compare it to your plate, that way we will know for sure where the problem is.

TIM

[Leeday]

Cheers Tim.
Few more pictures.. also if top stud is moved in slightly this would cure starter mesh, but may have to shave abit off the starter:







Tomorrow will measure gap between starter cog and flywheel ring gear.

Happy to send adapter plate back however have had to grind some off of it (which I will need to do on the new one to allow for SVO exhaust system).

[robbie.cee]

Gotta say, never had meshing issues with my essex. When battery was low starter sometimes Locked up but big rubber mallet freed it up.
Is it more likely ypu perhaps need a starter with extra teeth on cog?

[whitemice]

Cheers Tim.
Few more pictures.. also if top stud is moved in slightly this would cure starter mesh, but may have to shave abit off the starter:





Tomorrow will measure gap between starter cog and flywheel ring gear.

Happy to send adapter plate back however have had to grind some off of it (which I will need to do on the new one to allow for SVO exhaust system).

Bummer!
lookingAT THE PIC FROM AN 'ENGINEERIN' VIEWPOINT THE STARTER APERTURE IS NOT Axial with the flywheel - supporting the misaligned plate hole theory.

As the teeth are all shagged then changing plate/flywheel/pinion teeth number?? will bring a solution ???????????????........allegedly.

i seem to remember the 11 tooth pinion with a 110 tooth flywheel was pretty standard or was it 9,,mmy bwain hurts?????????????? whether some dodgy reconned standard starter with an increase in pinion tooth number to say 13 can handle the current increase is another matter

good luck Lee dude, Dieselhead is cool.

BTW i like to brush grease on the flywheel teeth on my essex on the occasional under-chassis grovel.

bummer dude.

fwiw
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-3000-V6- ... m3ce08faaa

[Leeday]

Hi Whitemice

My flywheel has 121 teeth,
Starter motor has 9 teeth and is a S151 Lucas Starter Motor.

[whitemice]

Cool, one wonders whether an 11 tooth pinion will mesh???????????

[conrod]

Cool, one wonders whether an 11 tooth pinion will mesh???????????

sometimes a pinion with different tooth count was available for starter motors, usually just one tooth difference though. They were designed to be interchangable, ie. the same diameter. So assuming an 11 tooth pinion was made for this starter, it would not solve the excessive clearance issue you have.