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Engine performance issue

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Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:13 pm

Hello everyone,

I am having a problem with the performance of my mk6 2.4 90ps rwd tranny. It will only rev to about 3200 rpm and top speed is 65 on a good day and hills just kill it. After scanning the forum i headed towards the fuel pump being the issue. I have checked boost pressure and it's only about 9psi. I got a pump removal kit and have checked the pump timing and that was out a bit. However this has not increased performance. I hooked up to the van with a laptop and it is reporting the error codes p0149 & p1564. After checking about a bit, I think this may be a solenoid issue. Can anyone confirm if this sounds right or have I missed any steps to eliminate things ?

Any help is welcome.

P.S. The van starts and ticks over fine, no extra noise even at speed.

Attached is the error log

Edit : I did notice on the pump sprocket that it had quite a few welts from what I can only assume is hammer hits. So much so that I had to debur one of the holes that allows access to the t45 torx nuts to allow the locking pin to fit in.
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:46 pm

Has no one got any ideas, suggestions or anything ?
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby Altransit » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:00 pm

Those are pretty well documented fault codes ...............................

:arrow: search.php?keywords=p0149%2C+p1564&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
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1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:37 am

Thanks altransit, just wanted to check I hadn't missed anything obvious.
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:08 pm

Hello again,

Just though I would resurrect my post as I have now changed the pump timing solenoid. It has made no difference :(

I am still getting the same errors and performance issues. I did notice whilst doing this job that the gold link on the timing chain was one off the mark on the pump cog.

Is it possible for the pump to jump a tooth ?
Would the van still start and run ?
Are there any other issues that might look like the solenoid fault ?

Hope someone can help please.

Rick
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby knobby1 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:08 pm

The tricky one wrote:I did notice whilst doing this job that the gold link on the timing chain was one off the mark on the pump cog.
Is it possible for the pump to jump a tooth ?
Would the van still start and run ?
Rick


I think you've just answered your own question.. :?

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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:29 pm

Not sure i have... It is possible that the person that fitted it may be a dim wit and all the pulleys were in the right place and he fitted the entire chain one tooth off.

I have not removed the entire cover to check this but if, as I assume you are saying it is possible to jump a tooth on the pump and still run that will be my next move.

Thanks
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby knobby1 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:39 pm

The tricky one wrote:Not sure i have... It is possible that the person that fitted it may be a dim wit and all the pulleys were in the right place and he fitted the entire chain one tooth off.

I have not removed the entire cover to check this but if, as I assume you are saying it is possible to jump a tooth on the pump and still run that will be my next move.

Thanks


Ah...In that case you'll need to check the camshaft/cam chain alignment too. It may well run being one tooth out. They all "must" be correct or the poor thing will not run very well if at all, if it has jumped a few teeth on the cams, you "may" have rocker ladder damage.

Yes, it is possible for the chain to jump a link or three....especially if the van has been bump/tow started. The tensioner requires oil pressure to operate correctly, a sudden jolt from a bump start when the chain is slightly loose can indeed cause them to jump teeth. It's not recommended, but, If you "must" tow start, it's best to put it in a higher gear and slowly pull away from a dead stop, this will stop the "sudden jolt" to the cam chain. Towing the van to 15mph or more and dropping the clutch in 1st will almost certainly cause grief. As usual I stand corrected.

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When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:07 am

Thank you for the reply knobby1,

I will get the cover off at the weekend and see what's going on in there.
As for the bump starting, I haven't done it to this van. However from some of the things I've seen on it i wouldn't put it past the previous owner.

Think I will get a new tensioner set as well as I'd like to put the gold links in the right place even if it hasn't jumped.

Thanks again.
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby pwhooftman » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:03 am

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but after reading "do not jump start!" for the zillionth time, i have to ask: how can jump starting make the chain jump teeth, and normal starting not? In both cases, the crankshaft is driven from the flywheel end, when jump starting via the gearbox, when normal starting via the starter. In both cases there will be no oil pressure present at the chain tensioner, and in both cases rpm will be low (i believe the starter is turning the engine at a few hunderd rpms). The advice to jump start from a higher gear even seems contradicting, because crankshaft rpm will even be lower and gears play in the gearbox larger, giving the crankshaft or camshafts even more room to judder the chain.
I'd really like a scientific like explanation (if there is any).
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby martynx » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:21 am

When you drop the clutch when tow starting, what RPM does the engine turn at, and is that comparable to when the starter motor is cranking ? Is the relatively slow crank from the starter that makes regular cranking safe and tow starting dangerous ? Or the rate at which engine goes from zero RPM to whatever ?

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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby Jim Archer » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:40 am

Given the idle speed in 2nd is about 10ish mph on the speedo for most of our vans, and cranking rpm will be less than that, dropping the clutch in 2nd is going to give things a bit of a wake up call.

The cam chain has less than 90° engagement with the inlet cam sprocket, hence why that is usually the first one to jump when the chain runs slack.

I wonder if the cam lobes in the Mk6 TDDI mechanical pump made them more prone to this than the roller vane type of the TDCI.

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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby knobby1 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:56 pm

martynx wrote:When you drop the clutch when tow starting, what RPM does the engine turn at, and is that comparable to when the starter motor is cranking ? Is the relatively slow crank from the starter that makes regular cranking safe and tow starting dangerous ? Or the rate at which engine goes from zero RPM to whatever ?

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Totally agree....starter turns the engine from zero to ~300-400 rpm at best until she fires, then up she'll come up to idle @ ~800rpm...towing to ~15mph in 1st and dropping the clutch will have it doing ~2000rpm instantly....and no oil pressure for a second or so will have your cam chain flapping in the breeze....not a good look, only takes 100th of a second with a loose chain to jump teeth :wink:

If we "must" tow start....put her in 2nd or 3rd with clutch "out" and "slowly" pull away from a dead stop....this will have the rpm slowly rise from zero and the oil pressure should be ok after a few turns of the crank.... rather than the sudden/instant hit to higher rpm with no oil pressure.

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When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby Jaffasoft » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:40 am

The tricky one wrote:Hello everyone,

I am having a problem with the performance of my mk6 2.4 90ps rwd tranny. It will only rev to about 3200 rpm and top speed is 65 on a good day and hills just kill it. After scanning the forum i headed towards the fuel pump being the issue. I have checked boost pressure and it's only about 9psi. I got a pump removal kit and have checked the pump timing and that was out a bit. However this has not increased performance. I hooked up to the van with a laptop and it is reporting the error codes p0149 & p1564. After checking about a bit, I think this may be a solenoid issue. Can anyone confirm if this sounds right or have I missed any steps to eliminate things ?

Any help is welcome.

P.S. The van starts and ticks over fine, no extra noise even at speed.

Attached is the error log

Edit : I did notice on the pump sprocket that it had quite a few welts from what I can only assume is hammer hits. So much so that I had to debur one of the holes that allows access to the t45 torx nuts to allow the locking pin to fit in.
Just wandering if this was fixed and if you could explain what you did to fix it, please?
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Re: Engine performance issue

Postby The tricky one » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:34 am

Hi jaffasoft,

No I have not fixed the problem yet. So here is an update with more questions.

I have checked the timing chain and it is fitted one tooth off. So it has not jumped a tooth.

Does anyone have any more ideas/suggestions ?

Also I have an old mk6 swb fwd van. It has a vp30 pump on it that works fine.
Can I transfer this to my rwd 2.4 if i get it virginised ?

Can I virginise it myself if i buy one of those clone vcm2 kits from china/ebay ?

Hope someone can shed some more light onto this problem.

Thanks
Rick
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