2.2 TDCi backfiring, kick-back and won't start

[welshwomble]

Hi The Post I was refering to is:

Re: Black smoke when accelerating hard

Postby muppet99 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:39 pm
Fixed..Black smoke away,,,

So finally got rid of black smoke when accelerating..
I bought an obd2 lead for my laptop and used forscan to read/clear codes...Only code that ever showed was P1103 (maf higher than expexted)

Heres what i did...

1. Cleaned MAF sensor with carb cleaner wasnt really dirty (no better, still same black smoke)
2. Cleaned MAP sensor with carb cleaner, was totally covered in tar like gunk (tiny bit better, but still lot black smoke)
3. Disconnected egr sensor plug (black smoke gone and van seems to be more reponsive)

I know have codes P1409 and P1402 which are because ive disconnected egr..

How is it possible that the egr was causing black smoke? I thought black smoke= over fuelling

I think your problem will be resolved by a process of elimination, possibly the above will be just a starting point. There again it might just work.
Good Luck!

[andz327]

Get the cover off the front, sounds timing chain problem if your lucky, or maybe the euro5 fookin oil pump gremlin bastardo got it and rodgered it

[phaedrus]

@amlav. Good thinking re suck and blow! I looked at doing a leak-down test but decided that it wasn't that easy - glowplugs seemed to be a mission to get out, nothing like the aforementioned bulldozer... methinks things have got worse since 1950 Thanks for the info on timing marks, prob going to need that - will align to TDC on the flywheel then; dunno what it's like on a Transit but with the LR I'll prob need the borescope to see whatever it is I need to see.

@walt1984. Last time I used hair spray for something it was in a pumpkin gun (spuds were too small!), I remember what happened then, it's not going to happen here

@andz327. This rogering gremlin bastardo sounds intriguing, I must look around to see what it's all about - probably Euro's revenge on we colonials from down under?!

@welshwomble. Thanks, I saw that, not sure it's the issue here but I am going to the check and/or blank off the egr if I don't pull the front off first.

Cheers, P.

[phaedrus]

Time for an update on the pesudo-Transit.

First of all I trust you'll be pleased to hear that the reason it's taken a while to followup is because I purchased another Ford, and so I spent some time getting that going. Happily it's now working well

Not so the subject of these posts thought - although I'm now somewhat more enlightened as to at least one of the problems it has; I've discovered that several of the injectors are gummed up. At least one of them is stuck open, which of course with common-rail means it's giving a continual charge of diesel into that cylinder, and as I now suspect there was petrol in the diesel it has been instrumental in the backfiring etc.

Subsequently I've removed dismantled the injectors and have tried ultrasonically cleaning the nozzles. However I've not had much success in freeing them up....

While ultimately I will probably replace the injectors, and/or nozzles, I'd first like to see if I can make it run with the present injectors - just in case there's anything else wrong with this motor that might make another motor a better bet.

To this end I wonder if anyone can tell me if the pins should come out of the nozzle body? I would have thought so, but I've never had these apart before... without free pins I expect t won't work well Injectors (and nozzle) are continental, nozzle has m0030 amongst other number etched on it.

If they should come out I may need to turn up a fitting that will close over the nozzle end and connect up to a hydraulic pump so I can push the pin out (air doesn't work).

Cheers, P.

[loot]

Both command piston and nozzle pin should be free, once you remove the nozzle cap and nozzle you should be able to get the pin.

Read it all mate.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=162185&hilit=Mk7+denso+injectors

[phaedrus]

Thanks Loot, a very interesting read.

Only thing is that the thread appears to be predominantly about the Denso injectors whereas mine are the Continental/Siemens type, and from what I can see the nozzles are a little different?

The Denso nozzles certainly seem to have a free pin, I've seen various photos showing this, but I've not seen any photos of the Siemens nozzle with a free pin? Perhaps it's just that no-one has issued such a photo, or maybe they just have a captive pin for some reason... I will check the part numbers tomorrow and post, just in case that helps.

In the meantime I've left the nozzles in a cleaning solution to soak overnight, I'm not actually anticipating the pins will be free in the morning but who knows I may get lucky!

Cheers, P.

[loot]

Ah my apologies, yours is the later siemens euro 5 injectors yes?

They don't look as sturdy as the denso ones, probably more cost cutting I'll keep my eyes peeled for any info.

Have you any pics of the Siemens ones you've dismantled?

[phaedrus]

Hi Loot, yes that's right, Continental/Siemens injectors.

I've put up a couple of pix to show what the injector looks like, and what the nozzle face is like with the pin installed. The rest of the nozzle appears to be just as per the earlier units, the only (visual) difference is that the pin is flush with the face, whereas in the earlier units it appears the pin protrudes - no doubt you'll know all about that!

FWIW the injector part is BH1Q-9K546-AB (FoMoCo ADQT5), the nozzle has a bunch of numbers and I've yet to work out which are the most important; CP12 217 67184 / M0030 P140 83. I see that the BH2Q-9K546 injectors look much the same, not sure what difference that second numeral makes other than perhaps denoting a ford injector fitted in a LR vs that fitted in a Transit?

... later... ok, it's probably easier just to put a url up of some injectors and a similar nozzle from the interweb! Let's try this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-CITROEN- ... SwwpdW2Zn-

https://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/Fue ... 7.2.omPjTz

Cheers, P.

[phaedrus]

Always important to follow up, just in case someone else has the same issue one day...

Fitting replacement injectors fixed the problem. The vehicle started almost immediately once they were fitted and ran fine, albeit there was lots of white smoke for quite some time while the raw diesel in the exhaust system etc was dispelled. I have not completed any 'injector learn' but the machine seems fine to me at present.

Several things to note:

[1] The symptoms now make sense given the actual fault - as the fuel wasn't being injected at the right time (in effect way too early since it was continually injecting) of course it would backfire and occasionally run in reverse while it used up various quantities of raw diesel that had accumulated.

[2] It was useful to turn over the motor and with the injector feeds disconnected and watch each injector input connection - the faulty injectors (stuck open) would blow out of here as the cylinder compression worked up.

[3] Fuel rail pressure limits etc would show a fault sometimes, but not always. Initially it never showed as an issue, it was only when I tried to clean up the injectors that this appeared, perhaps it was because it effectively allowed a greater (permanent) connection between the cylinder and fuel rail. Some of the injectors were still stuck closed and so it may be that overall the flow rate was generally ok, but it was simply the 'suck and blow' via the stuck open units that affected the rail occasionally.

[5] Due to the particular issue it would also backfire etc with the injector electrical connectors disconnected.

[6] BK2Q-9K546-AG seem to work ok in place of BH1Q-9K546-AB. This may be obvious to those with a background in such things but perhaps it will help those of us who are not so learned the next time such a question arises...

Otherwise thanks for the interest and help shown here!

P.

[ake]

Thanks for the update

If it had petrol through it, that's what will have killed the original injectors!