Rip out all computers and convert to full mechanical?

[ake]

Simple just disconnect pump and see if speedo still works by driving it

[4x4 tranny]

Id be more interested what /how you get on with your ASM gearbox with no computer?

[Altransit]

Id be more interested what /how you get on with your ASM gearbox with no computer?

Yes, now that would be an engineering challenge

[sjmcl]

Imho, computers are the root of many car troubles. Assuming they never fail themselves (false) they are only as good as the many sensors they rely on, and the guy who programmed them. In my previous Transit for example, Ford consulted my van's computer and told me I needed to find a mortgage broker because my fuel pump was failing and needed an overhaul. Trouble is, the pump had recently been overhauled already and I cannot believe they need overhauling every 30,000 kms.

I am starting to see a similar picture emerge with these ASM gearboxes. Sure, it's all great when everything works, but when one little component fails it has a serious effect on everything else and good luck trying to find and fix the cause of the problem yourself. You're at the mercy of the local Ford mafia!

[Punto443]

So did it need overhauled mechanically or electronically?

I believe a lot of the problems from computer derived systems come from lack of maintainence, failing to clean and calibrate and lack of knowledge. Just like failing to adjust a tappet etc, the longer it’s left the worse it will become and further out of calibration.


Servicing a modern vehicle requires updates and calibrations that can only be carried out by diagnostic equipment. And a lot of people still seem to think it’s still just a case of oil and filters. Therefore going sometimes years without correct adjustments and blaming these computers and poor design.

Run an old engine as a working motor without adjusting tappets, ignition points etc for a good few year and see how well it does?

Diagnostic equipment is both cheap and readily available now, it should be regarded as an electronic socket set to speak of.

In the same way if you approach any job without the correct tools, then how can the optimum result be achieved.

Obviously, both mechanically and computer controlled engines can both suffer component sudden failure,



Merely my take on things?
Oh, and I’m no old motor hater btw, just think people need to evolve as technology does.

[knobby1]

So did it need overhauled mechanically or electronically?

I believe a lot of the problems from computer derived systems come from lack of maintainence, failing to clean and calibrate and lack of knowledge. Just like failing to adjust a tappet etc, the longer it’s left the worse it will become and further out of calibration.


Servicing a modern vehicle requires updates and calibrations that can only be carried out by diagnostic equipment. And a lot of people still seem to think it’s still just a case of oil and filters. Therefore going sometimes years without correct adjustments and blaming these computers and poor design.

Run an old engine as a working motor without adjusting tappets, ignition points etc for a good few year and see how well it does?

Diagnostic equipment is both cheap and readily available now, it should be regarded as an electronic socket set to speak of.

In the same way if you approach any job without the correct tools, then how can the optimum result be achieved.

Obviously, both mechanically and computer controlled engines can both suffer component sudden failure,

Merely my take on things?
Oh, and I’m no old motor hater btw, just think people need to evolve as technology does.

Are you not well Punto..? You made a lot of sense just now..!

And...making things idiot proof doesn't help much...we just keep producing better idiots..!

Lord Knobrot

[bigjohnthomas]

Probably be best to carefully remove all the computers

[birdie]

Can we rip all the computers out of the forum too? It would be much better without!

[sjmcl]

So did it need overhauled mechanically or electronically?

I believe a lot of the problems from computer derived systems come from lack of maintainence, failing to clean and calibrate and lack of knowledge. Just like failing to adjust a tappet etc, the longer it’s left the worse it will become and further out of calibration.


Servicing a modern vehicle requires updates and calibrations that can only be carried out by diagnostic equipment. And a lot of people still seem to think it’s still just a case of oil and filters. Therefore going sometimes years without correct adjustments and blaming these computers and poor design.

Run an old engine as a working motor without adjusting tappets, ignition points etc for a good few year and see how well it does?

Diagnostic equipment is both cheap and readily available now, it should be regarded as an electronic socket set to speak of.

In the same way if you approach any job without the correct tools, then how can the optimum result be achieved.

Obviously, both mechanically and computer controlled engines can both suffer component sudden failure,



Merely my take on things?
Oh, and I’m no old motor hater btw, just think people need to evolve as technology does.

My old van went into limp mode, I took it to the Ford dealer, they hooked it up to a computer/diagnostic and then fumbled for 20 minutes : "can't find any fault codes, oh yes I got some, oh no there must be some others, oh yes I found some others, these ones look promising .. etc". In the end they assured me the pump needed overhauling, mechanically I believe. I limped away and ripped out all the electronics. It's been the best van ever since!

Anyway, I'm looking into finding a decent diagnostic tool that's compatible with my van and that can do as much as possible to help ME diagnose and fix the problem myself, without having to go to a Ford crystal ball gazer gambling with my hard earned dollars. Failing that, I will take the jump and de-computerize my new van as well.

[ned]

Code reader and more
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=182114&p=1563027&hilit=elm#p1554848

[Punto443]

Firstly, I’d recommend and elm 327 with forscan for budget code reading.

But I’m confused?

The pump failed mechanically after 30k, but you’ve demonised the electronics, that seems a bit odd to me?
If it had been the electronics that had failed then I could see why you have an issue. It it sounds like the computer done it’s job dropping to limp to protect the engine?

[bigjohnthomas]

Rip out all the mechanics and convert to full computer

That should sort it
Space 1999 didn't have all this mechanical sh*t

[sjmcl]

Firstly, I’d recommend and elm 327 with forscan for budget code reading.

But I’m confused?

The pump failed mechanically after 30k, but you’ve demonised the electronics, that seems a bit odd to me?
If it had been the electronics that had failed then I could see why you have an issue. It it sounds like the computer done it’s job dropping to limp to protect the engine?

At the time I did a lot of research and many people recommended replacing the electronic pump with a mechanical bosh pump. Everyone raved about it being the best thing they ever did to their van. And they were right. It cost me about 500$ and a days work, as opposed to $3000-$4000 for a job that had already been done 30k ago by Ford.

I don't care how much others are in love with electronics, I'd rather do without them (at least in my vehicles).

I'll check out that diagnostic tool you mentioned. Thanks for the tip.

[sjmcl]

Firstly, I’d recommend and elm 327 with forscan for budget code reading.

But I’m confused?

The pump failed mechanically after 30k, but you’ve demonised the electronics, that seems a bit odd to me?
If it had been the electronics that had failed then I could see why you have an issue. It it sounds like the computer done it’s job dropping to limp to protect the engine?

PS : I never believed the computer was right about the pump failing. 1. The "experts" at Ford had to fumble around for 20 minutes to talk to their computers and find something. 2. The pump had recently been overhauled and should have lasted much longer than 30k. 3. Many other people had the same experience of their van (same engine/model) being put in limp mode for no apparent reason. When people start relying on computers to tell them what they should be able to observe and/or deduct themselves, they tend to become disconnected from reality and dependent on the "experts" who are more often than not experts at all, but rather have created a market for themselves. If Ford wanted to, they could have added a little LCD screen to display the error codes. It would cost an extra $2 in parts and save people from having to visit the "experts" to read the code for them, usually at a hefty price. Luckily that is now changing with diagnostic tools becoming more available and affordable.

[Jim Archer]

If it went into limp mode, it did so for a reason, and that would have been because something in the injection system was out of spec.

The reason they couldn't find/read the codes at the dealers is likely down to not using the correct diagnostic kit.

Considering that even the youngest EPIC equiped Transit is now 18 years old, it's not a bad reliability record really.

Jim