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Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

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Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Evening,

Firstly, I must apologies as I can see this has been discussed many times before. But having looked through many threads, I am still completely confused. Could someone explain in simple terms please?

Basically I am trying to determine the legal speed limits for our Tourneo (8 seat), with conflicting information from the DVLA and police.

The DVLA class it as a passenger vehicle, and therefore car speed limits. The police say it is a van, so reduced limits. I queried this again with the police and have received a reply saying it depends if the van qualifies as a dual purpose vehicle. It meets all the criteria, except I am struggling for the definition/proof of the unladen weight.

"A vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg"

Having always driven cars/small campervans, and never towed anything, vehicle weights are alien to me.

The VIN plate is below. As far as I can see

GVM: 2800kg
Train weight (towing) 4500kg
Front axle weight: 1400
Rear axle weight: 1550

The log book says 'Mass in Service - 1933', but again I'm not clear what that means. Is that the unladen weight?

I understand the GVM is everything, including passengers, fuel, all equipment etc. And this is in mind for the camper conversion. But unladen weight has me stumped. I can't find anything in the manual, so is it a case of a ticket from a weighbridge? Is that sufficient evidence? Or is there something I should be able to find written down?

Again, this is purely so I know if I can go to 70 on a dual carriage way. There isn't much scope for driving above 50 daily, but on a 7 hour trip to see family, 60 instead of 70 would make a long journey even longer. But I need to be completely clear that I'm legal.

Any help would be much appreciated,

Many thanks!
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:18 pm

Just another thought. As part of the conversion and to please our insurance, we have removed one row of seats (weighing a ton!!). We have sent off the V5 to reflect this change, and I think this is why the police are now saying a dual purpose vehicle. But, as that has removed a fair bit of weight, does that make any difference, or is the unladen weight set in stone somewhere?
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby grogan197 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:38 pm

BaileyBoys wrote:The log book says 'Mass in Service - 1933', but again I'm not clear what that means. Is that the unladen weight?


The mass in service is the unladen weight of the vehicle plus 75kg for the driver and I would assume some weight added on for fuel too
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:49 pm

Thank you so much! So it looks like we are well within the limits. I am going to the weigh bridge tomorrow anyway, then will take the readout and the V5 to the police station and ask again. I now need to find out if the DVLA need to re register as dual purpose, (it is currently listed as minibus) or if that doesn’t matter.
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby ned » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:42 am

I'm assuming you have been done for speeding :? Are the seats in the tourneo not designed to come out easily (like nearly all mpv's) what is the taxation class of the vehicle? Put your reg into ford etis and it should tell you what the vehicle is, I.e. MPV, minibus, light goods vehicle etc. N
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby Mike » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:27 am

Dual purpose vehicle regs, “be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding)“ the Tourneo seats are removable?
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Oh gosh, no I have never been in trouble for speeding! I just want to make sure it stays that way! We often travel 5-6 hours on dual carriage ways - reduced speed limits will make that journey much longer, so I am exploring all options to enable me to legally increase to 70.

Well, I've been to the weigh bridge and police station today, who inspected the van. The unladen weight is well under the limit for a dual purpose vehicle, so the police advice is now to see how the DVLA will go about removing the minibus classification.

Regarding the removable seats. Yes, technically they are clipped in/out, and we need to remove the remaining seat mountings to satisfy the DVLA. However, they are not individual seats - one bench seat which took 3 of us to move as it's so heavy. We have left the rear row. I raised this with the policeman, who was satisfied they would be classed as permanent seats. The DVLA may view it differently, so we will see.

If they are not, we were intending to replace the seats in the future anyway, which we can just do earlier. They will not be removable.

Of course, this is all a temporary measure as we have to finish the camper conversion within 12 months, and then all will be well anyway.

Regarding the log book, it states

body type: mini bus
Taxation: Diesel car
M1
Mass in service: 1933kg (corroborated by the weigh bridge of 1940kg)
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:21 pm

Ooh, I have an update after a very informative conversation with the DVLA.

It is, and always has been classed as a passenger carrying vehicle and should not have been classed as a minibus. As such, I don't even need to worry about dual vehicle status. The policeman is correct in that it is currently subject to minibus speeds, due to the V5 classification. But they are incorrect about it being a van.

He is very hopeful that, with photographic evidence supplied, they will reclassify it even if we hadn't reduced the number of seats. Exactly what, he couldn't say without seeing the photos, but likely an MPV. Happy days! :-D

V5 and evidence are on their way, I'll let you know how I get on. :-D
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby Mike » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm

BaileyBoys wrote:our Tourneo (8 seat)

BaileyBoys wrote:so the police advice is now to see how the DVLA will go about removing the minibus classification.
Regarding the log book, it states

body type: mini bus
Taxation: Diesel car
M1

Isn’t a ‘minibus’ an 9-16 seat vehicle?
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:37 pm

Exactly. That was how the whole mystery started.

I originally asked the police as, having received the V5 and seeing minibus I wanted to check that my license was OK. This then led onto 'well, it's not a minibus, but it is a van'. But, whilst it is classified as a minibus on the V5, those are the speeds I need to abide by.

Fingers crossed the caseworker at the DVLA is as helpful as the man on the phone! :mrgreen:
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby Altransit » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:38 pm

Mike wrote:Isn’t a ‘minibus’ an 9-16 seat vehicle?

As far as I know, yes.

Tourneos, especially 8 seaters, have always been known as MPV's, and are non-commercial vehicles, but for some reason a lot of people call them minibuses, and can be as hard to insure as a minibus :?
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:25 pm

Altransit wrote:can be as hard to insure as a minibus :?


Don't I know it! Hence why our insurance suggested removing the seats etc. As a minibus, the insurance was more than the van was worth! I am so glad I've finally got to the bottom of this, and await my new shiny logbook. :-)
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby ned » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:01 pm

BaileyBoys wrote:Oh gosh, no I have never been in trouble for speeding! I just want to make sure it stays that way! We often travel 5-6 hours on dual carriage ways - reduced speed limits will make that journey much longer, so I am exploring all options to enable me to legally increase to 70.

Well, I've been to the weigh bridge and police station today, who inspected the van. The unladen weight is well under the limit for a dual purpose vehicle, so the police advice is now to see how the DVLA will go about removing the minibus classification.

Regarding the removable seats. Yes, technically they are clipped in/out, and we need to remove the remaining seat mountings to satisfy the DVLA. However, they are not individual seats - one bench seat which took 3 of us to move as it's so heavy. We have left the rear row. I raised this with the policeman, who was satisfied they would be classed as permanent seats. The DVLA may view it differently, so we will see.

If they are not, we were intending to replace the seats in the future anyway, which we can just do earlier. They will not be removable.

Of course, this is all a temporary measure as we have to finish the camper conversion within 12 months, and then all will be well anyway.

Regarding the log book, it states

body type: mini bus
Taxation: Diesel car
M1
Mass in service: 1933kg (corroborated by the weigh bridge of 1940kg)


Sorry I wasn't trying to offend you with the speeding question its just most people ask the question after they have been caught speeding :wink: N
RUST IS LIGHTER THEN CARBON FIBRE

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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=209987

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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby BaileyBoys » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:17 pm

None taken! I'm a good girl. :-D
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Re: Apologies but I am so confused. Weights....

Postby dumper » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:08 pm

It’s about time the speed limit for vans was raised to 60 mph for A roads and 70 on duel carriageways if there is no lower speed limit in force for that road I am surprised all the big couriers have not lobbied for this I’m in Southern Ireland at the moment and all vans can drive legally at whatever the speed limit is for that road.
Last year I whent through a speed camera van at 60 mph on a 60 mph limit as my van is a campervan is allowed 60 mph back home I was worried that I would get a speeding fine so turned round to check with the camera van operator who told me I was ok as what ever the road speed limit was that is what vans are allowed but in kph
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