69 Flower Power Hippie/Hotrod Transit

[Franfixit]

At one point in my minor i was losing about a litre every 5 miles (8km)

You would have had an 80km range...with a 10 litre sump!! ....Was that major engine leaks or coming past the pistons as well?

[Franfixit]

Setting up front and rear sump panels & rechecking oil picup clearance

I want the new side panel of the sump to appear as one piece with the side of the original oilpan. I've cut the new piece to match the slope of the oil pan from front to back and if I mount it on the apex of the side to base oil pan curve it should give a nice flush finish.

[deankdx]

will you be making a low point for the drain plug? and a failsafe for those tube bolts at the flange(is a nylock nut ok in oil? or is there a locking nut that will work?)
certainly looking professional so far.. but it looks to hang down very low, will it go passed the beam axel when being fitted back to the van?

[AlanN]

and a failsafe for those tube bolts at the flange(is a nylock nut ok in oil? or is there a locking nut that will work?)?

How about one of those Ole fashioned lock washers

Great thread, keep the pictures coming

[Franfixit]

will you be making a low point for the drain plug? and a failsafe for those tube bolts at the flange(is a nylock nut ok in oil? or is there a locking nut that will work?)
certainly looking professional so far.. but it looks to hang down very low, will it go passed the beam axel when being fitted back to the van?

Hey Dean, thankyou for your questions and feel free to ask more like them in the future...If I hadn't considered some of the things that you've mentioned then I could have been heading for catastrophic engine failure....So please comment on any concerns as I am well able to completely stuff things up!
Firstly, drain plug...I noticed when I googled race pan images that ones with the sump to the rear had drain holes at the side rear of sump..No particular low point. I decided that since the engine slopes down at the back,that makes sense.I also decided that my method of draining oil would be to put the trolley jack under the opposite side of the beam axle to the drain hole and jack it up a little...so the appropriate low point is created.Now the oil pickup I have approached with a feeling of intense paranoia....the original part is brazed...which I think flexes better than GMAW...so I have yet to shrink fit secondary flanges to take mechanical strain off those welds.The pick up extension attaches to the oil pump using the original system which is bolts with spring washers into threaded holes in the pump.(I guess that's what Alan N means by lock washers unless he's referring to those serrated edge type)
I was also curious about the possibility of nylock's but hadn't researched it.....a cursory google search indicates they will fail because of temperature range...didn't check about oil resistance. I was considering making one of those setups with tabs that bend around the nut but the more I think about it, the more I feel the welder will be involved..if in future for some reason I need to replace the pick up,I will simply unbolt the original factory setup from the pump....then I'm free to take the rest to the bench and deal with my 'welded locknut' with the angle grinder...........Will the oilpan go past the beam axle?....I think so....I didn't do measurements with engine partially installed but when I decided to get crazy with the sump depth, I measured the engine from top of rocker cover to base of where I wanted pan to be....then measured from beam axle to top of firewall hole , then tried to imagine where that would all be at with the engine coming in at an angle...seemed like it was going to make it....If it doesn't...you can be sure I will post pics

[Franfixit]

and a failsafe for those tube bolts at the flange(is a nylock nut ok in oil? or is there a locking nut that will work?)?

How about one of those Ole fashioned lock washers

Great thread, keep the pictures coming

Ole fashioned lock washers?.....Well since my welder is an old CIG unit before they changed to BOC over here..that'll make my CIG lock nuts old fashioned

[Terry]

Hi
I can't help wondering why you want such a huge capacity sump ! The engine designers decided on a quantity correct for the engine, is there any sense increasing the volume ? (neither an oil cooler, nor a dry sump system increases capacity). Some older 'works' rally Ford Escorts had 'wings' welded to the lowest part of the sump. That is the only instance I can recollect of increasing capacity. Baffles ?
That oil pump pick-up may need a little support if you are going to go across rough ground.
You could 'wire' the pick-up bolts to solve your lock washer dilemma. (the serrated lock washers I know as 'star' washers but I won't swear that's correct).
Keep up the good work, and have fun
Terry

[Franfixit]

Hi
I can't help wondering why you want such a huge capacity sump ! The engine designers decided on a quantity correct for the engine, is there any sense increasing the volume ? (neither an oil cooler, nor a dry sump system increases capacity). Some older 'works' rally Ford Escorts had 'wings' welded to the lowest part of the sump. That is the only instance I can recollect of increasing capacity. Baffles ?
That oil pump pick-up may need a little support if you are going to go across rough ground.
You could 'wire' the pick-up bolts to solve your lock washer dilemma. (the serrated lock washers I know as 'star' washers but I won't swear that's correct).
Keep up the good work, and have fun
Terry

In this particular case it's not about increasing oil volume but rather..sump depth. Locating the oil further from the crank reduces windage and that means more horsepower which is of absolute importance in extreme high performance power output applications such as the 69 Luvbus!........Just kidding......The depth and shape of the sump I'm creating is purely because I like the look of it..(kind of like chrome rocker covers don't make sense but I like them)I did some maths up front so I didn't kick out the sides too far which would have committed me to using a higher volume of oil to achieve appropriate submerging of the oil pickup...so no extra oil. Being a non performance application I haven't gone to the trouble of constructing baffles although I have left portions of the original pan plus a portion of the new pan base that creates a lip around the sump that would have somewhat of a baffle effect..but is unecessary anyway...so no crank scrapers or windage trays either.
Now just when I had finally convinced myself that the pick up doesn't need support since I've seen similarly long pick ups without them....and the oil creates a dampening effect..you go and make me paranoid again ....I'm not going to find out the hard (and expensive) way that I should have included a support....I'll be putting one in!...thanks for all your comments and causing me to review this.

[Franfixit]

Relocation of oil dipstick and tube.....it wasn't going to be very relevant if left in original position

[deankdx]

how much OFF THE STICK Tolerance is in the factory setup? i have had crossflows showing no oil before.... .where that sits if stock would = very little oil

[Franfixit]

how much OFF THE STICK Tolerance is in the factory setup? i have had crossflows showing no oil before.... .where that sits if stock would = very little oil

What you are looking at in the pic is a copy of the factory setup...The dipstick pretty well touches the top of the pickup...there's about 10mm depth from there to the underside pick up screen.I've set the stick up the same as the factory had it, but I'll still need to do tests and put extra marks on the stick.When I put the standard 4.5 litres in,it will come up higher on the stick than the full mark since my new sump area doesn't have the oil spread out as wide.Because of this the original dipstick marks are only indicators of oil depth in relation to the pick up...not also an indicator of safe volumes of oil in the pan.

[Franfixit]

Secondary flange fitted to oil pick up extension..flange is split in two sections..When welded back together creates a weld shrink fitted flange to take some of the mechanical strain off the primary flange

Pan base in place

The bit where all the oil is going to live

[vana mana]

Just found this thread..love the spring hanger repairs and fabrication work..

[gravelrash2004]

The work and quality of it on this van is fabulous

[Franfixit]

The work and quality of it on this van is fabulous

Hey, Thanks a lot...that's a huge compliment!