Transitmania 10 @Santa Pod 18th to 20th May 2018


Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:05 pm

Righto time for a little update as it's been a while
After sorting the leaky injector seal and going on holiday me and luke got talking about the flow rates of the jaguar injectors and the theory of how much the mondeo ecu can control them as a trip to Scarborough cost me an absolute arm and a leg in petrol!!
The thinking was that when in the jaguar vertualy everything was adjustable/variable and controlled by the complex ecu whereas the mondeo is a little bit basic in comparison.
Some research was done and was found that the flow rate of the standard jag injectors were massive compared to the mondeo 1s, granted the mondeo 1s are from a 2.5 but even the mondeo st220 3.0 1s arn't as big either.
So with this in mind I set about building a custom fuel rail to accommodate the 2.5 injectors (they are longer than the jag 1s) as we thought the ecu couldn't reign back the pulse timing enough to stop it over fueling but may be able to increase it to accommodate the extra it would need for the increase in displacement, if it couldn't at least I could increase the fuel pressure manually.
So many experiments with brazing later (after last doing it at school! :lol: ) I had made a custom rail, fitted it and first try it leaked!! Many attempts later and I ended up abandoning it and went for dremilling the lower inlet so that the injectors sat a little lower in the sockets. (I used the spare from the first engine)
All fitted back together and ran like a pile of sh*te!
I ended up going back to the standard fuel regulator and hey presto it runs like a dream again (as it did before but without the fuel bill! :lol: )
I think I will be investing in a good quality fuel pressure reg as I always knew the Chinese copy may be a weak link when it came to fine tuning and reliability.
Before I went to mania I brimmed the tank did the trip there and back on 1 tank sat at 60-65ish and a few miles round home and it averaged 15mpg! :shock:
So as usual a few pics but nothing else to report :lol:
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1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby madmart132 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:45 am

Wow that fuel consumption figure must have hurt ,I had a 2.5 v6 Mondeo and it was very impressive on fuel on a run at least 36-38mpg as I recall.
watching with interest and hoping you sort it easily
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:50 pm

madmart132 wrote:Wow that fuel consumption figure must have hurt ,I had a 2.5 v6 Mondeo and it was very impressive on fuel on a run at least 36-38mpg as I recall.
watching with interest and hoping you sort it easily


Well so far so good, it seems to be doing pretty good on fuel atm, I threw 30quid in a very empty tank last Thursday and did quite a bit of milage and even had a blast up the motorway at 70-80mph for a few jncs :lol: and I've only just put some more juice in.
First impressions are good but I still won't be able to get an accurate mpg as my speedo still dosnt work but it's not stinging the pocket as much as it used to! :lol:
1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:39 pm

Right chaps update time,
Not much done on the van other than having the tracking sorted and a fresh mot.........it's been a year since I got the van on the road!! :shock:

The van also seems to be better on fuel than it was before, even more so when on the motorways etc....

Couple of bits arrived in the post, my new puddle lights ready for fitting and the bonnet vents for the second spare bonnet when I get round to fitting them :roll:

Anyway I've been looking into megasquirt ecus after chatting to fella at a local ford meet about mine and it got me looking more into how my particular engine works and what would be the optimum setup.

The small nigly problems I've been having with the mondeo ecu are now making a lot more sense, as the jag engine is configured/designed for sequential injection (larger spec Injectors required) and ignition whereas the mondeo ecu uses batch injection (smaller spec injectors that fire twice) and wasted spark.

Combine this with a small amount of exhaust valve overlap at the beginning of the inlet stroke could explain why it smells like it's over fueling.

Im assuming......its like this (given my vast knowledge of engines and efi systems! :lol: ):-
The ecu sees from the O2 sensors that it is over fueled, so reduces fuel, then sees the fueling needs increasing because it's getting a lean burn (because a tiny amount has gone down the exhaust valve), so then increases fueling but gets unburnt fuel on the O2 sensor due to the overlap and the cycle begins again...........

The megasquirt system I've seen will fit the bill perfectly returning the engine to fully sequential injection.
I'll also be able to utilise the vvt and squeeze even more hp from her. I'll just need a rolling road mapping session to get the optimum settings set up.

So Yeh that's what I've been trying to get my head around for the last few weeks :lol:
Just a couple of pics fresh after coming back from the mot and the puddle lights 8)
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1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby DodgeRover » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:58 pm

Sorry it's been a while since I read this but did you ever get anywhere with getting it to run on the cut down jag loom/ ecu or was it just too much of an arse? Does the mondeo engine have the mounts in the right place if I was to use one of those running a cut down loom?

Did anything come of the people who said it was possible to delete stuff from the jag ECU?
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:40 pm

DodgeRover wrote:Sorry it's been a while since I read this but did you ever get anywhere with getting it to run on the cut down jag loom/ ecu or was it just too much of an arse? Does the mondeo engine have the mounts in the right place if I was to use one of those running a cut down loom?

Did anything come of the people who said it was possible to delete stuff from the jag ECU?


Hi again,
yes the jag ecu is just to complex and integrated into the actual car (not saying it can't be stripped and transplanted as a whole mind....just lots and lots of work making it compatible ), it was looking at and receiving inputs for everything from throttle position to which indicator bulb had blown! :lol:

The mondeo engine is obviously mounted the wrong way so mounts aren't stright forward and also the water pump runs off the back of the cam shaft which would've made it very tight if not impossible to mount without cutting the bulkhead.
That said it has been done in a mk1 escort (of all cars) that I've read somewhere so is mountable longitudinal but i can't remember seeing any details of how the mounts were made and where he picked up on the block etc.

Mine is now on the thinned down mondeo ecu as it can be brought right back and doesn't need the cluster etc to run, I have however kept the pats as a little security option.
1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby twin--turbo » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:43 pm

I may have to read this in full at some point, only just skimmed through it..

But my daily driver ( well it's having a rest for some little bits to be done ) is a S-Type 4.0 V8.

But I also have a 1999 3.0 Auto to strip for parts, it's my 4th S-type so I am quite well aquainted with pulling them apart ;)

If my 2.4 MK7 engine packs in I think I know what's goig to happen ;)


TT
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby DodgeRover » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:41 pm

Have you seen this as an alternative to Megasquirt for a 1/5th of the money

https://diy-efi.co.uk/speeduino/11-18-s ... addmega-no
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby twin--turbo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:41 am

Been folowing the progress of Speeduino for a couple of years as I have been using Arduino for a number of years for other things.

One of the guys (Marty) @ fordsierraclub.co.uk has converted his sierra from EEC-IV to speeduino.

TT
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby DodgeRover » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 am

twin--turbo wrote:Been folowing the progress of Speeduino for a couple of years as I have been using Arduino for a number of years for other things.

One of the guys (Marty) @ fordsierraclub.co.uk has converted his sierra from EEC-IV to speeduino.

TT


Has anybody controlled an LPG injection system with one yet? What's the best forum to look on for advice as to what they can and cannot do?
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby twin--turbo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:30 pm

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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:31 pm

twin--turbo wrote:I may have to read this in full at some point, only just skimmed through it..

But my daily driver ( well it's having a rest for some little bits to be done ) is a S-Type 4.0 V8.

But I also have a 1999 3.0 Auto to strip for parts, it's my 4th S-type so I am quite well aquainted with pulling them apart ;)

If my 2.4 MK7 engine packs in I think I know what's goig to happen ;)


TT


If you go the speeduino/ms route with the 3.0 auto you may need a separate ecu to control the auto box, I'm not completely clued up on this side as mines manual so haven't looked into it but I've an incling that the auto box takes some inputs from the main ecu
1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:36 pm

DodgeRover wrote:Have you seen this as an alternative to Megasquirt for a 1/5th of the money

https://diy-efi.co.uk/speeduino/11-18-s ... addmega-no


Yes I have looked into speeduino and spoke to a guy called james over the phone that runs diy-efi, the only trouble is that speeduino can't do sequential injection atm (only 4x injection channels its currently being developed) and that's what would best suit the engine for performance and economy, that's how the original ecu controlled the injection side, I can however get away with wasted spark
Last edited by Pocketrocket on Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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Re: Mk5 tourneo jag-van mk2

Postby Pocketrocket » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:40 pm

twin--turbo wrote:Been folowing the progress of Speeduino for a couple of years as I have been using Arduino for a number of years for other things.

One of the guys (Marty) @ fordsierraclub.co.uk has converted his sierra from EEC-IV to speeduino.

TT

Yeh speeduino can do 4x sequential injection but when it comes to 6x cylinders it has to be ran via 3 lots of 2 batch injection which is how the mondeo ecu I'm using atm works
1999 mk5 tourneo (jagvan phase ll )
2000 mk5 with a jaguar twist :wink: (now dead but will live on)
1996 disco 300tdi offroad toy :D
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