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Epic to Bosch pump conversion

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Epic to Bosch pump conversion

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:49 am

Hi,all, I have Just joined this excellent site as a resource and being so impressed decided to introduce myself and my surrogate Van.
This might give a few of you a bit of a laugh, maybe even a bit of déjà vu for a few of you !?
My brother-in law bought a 2000 2.5 Turbo LWB Hi roof LWB a month ago, and immediately ran into trouble. The van would lose power, cut out then run in limp mode. It was a private sale and the guy he bought it from didn’t want to know. He took it to the local garage and the mechanic seemed to know the problem straight away. £400 quid lighter he drove away with a new fuel filter modification and inlet gasket. Unfortunately the problem wasn’t solved and back into the garage it went. 2 days later the garage rang to say they had plugged it in and diagnosed a sensor problem and had ordered a part. Two days later, the garage rang, said they had not ordered the part, but sought the advice of an auto electrician who told them it was a problem with this type of pump and ECU system, to hand it back and not touch it with a barge pole.(As a note Ford were particularly unhelpful !!)
I have worked extensively on diesels, but only the older Perkins, landys and a 1954 Gardner :-).. so I was asked to help as they had only been offered a scrap price for the van, you can imagine the fall-out at the prospect of him loosing 2 grand at the drop of a hat !
I noticed straight away that the loom to the pump had previously been cut and the wires were badly crimped together, some were just twisted !!. I couldn’t believe that the whole thing was wrapped in carpet tape !! I removed the tape to get a better look and now the immobiliser has kicked in and won’t knock off. I thought that perhaps a second hand pump has been sourced at some time and the immobiliser bypassed, though I did think that the pump would have to be coded to the ECU so I’m not sure about that one.
After much umming and arrring, I decided that the best course of action would be to junk the fly-by-wire system for a manual pump, did an internet search and here I am.
You can imagine how relieved I was to find on your excellent site and that I can fit a Bosch pump, cable and pedal box without too much of a problem. I have looked at a few posts and I am heartened to find such a collection of great people who help, encourage and don’t mind sharing their knowledge and know –how.
When I can get some time together I’m going to fit a pump, turn up the fueling, take out the EGR butterfly, rip out the EPIC system and re-wire the ignition. I’ll probably have to fit some kind of aftermarket immobiliser too, with my luck, I’ll sort it, then get it nicked.
I might even be tempted to buy the van and convert to veg.
If anyone’s interested I’ll keep updating
Last edited by alanwh on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby johns » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:02 am

Last weekend I installed a turbo motor in my van (see seperate thread) with a manual pump - put the epic pump on ebay!

I personally know a few people who have done this conversion and it works well - no more limp mode when you least expect it!

For me the conversion was straight forward as my van was originally fitted with a manual pump - it was merely bolting on, connecting throttle cable and tweaking the timing slightly.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby gemini » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:09 am

alanwh wrote:He took it to the local garage and the mechanic seemed to know the problem straight away. £400 quid lighter he drove away with a new fuel filter modification and inlet gasket.


:shock: did he get his money back :?: any pics of the so called mod they did
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:00 am

Started the dismantle on Saturday, Radiator off, can't figure out why they designed the timing cover so you have to take off the waterpump pulley first before removing it ?! The tensioner is a weird set up I’ve not seen before, spring loaded with an allen key slot, presume it will be a sequence of tightening the bolt and engaging tension with the allen Key, Anyone any ideas?
Pump came off without a hitch, but what a nightmare with the wires at the back of the pump looking like a right birds nest. I thought that someone had just hacked into the wires, instead of unplugging from the back of the pump, but when I got it off the wires are moulded into the back of the modules, which I couldn’t quite believe. Surely a wire hatchet job isn’t required whenever a new pump is fitted.
I spent a couple of hours on Sunday having a butchers at the wiring loom and have located the starter solenoid wire, but I can’t figure out if I can Wire this straight to the ignition switch or if it has another solenoid stuck somewhere in between the switch and the starter. I am hoping that I can solder on a wire from the ignition switch and wire it directly, but I doubt it will be that easy.
I had a problem with the PATS, the van just stopped while I was checking the bundle of wires at the back of the pump I think I must have caused a wire break or something and now the immobiliser light just keeps flashing. What I couldn’t understand was that the key that came with the van was a standard non-chipped key… Well I found the solution to that, The original key was taped to the ignition barrel !!!! I’m hoping I can wire out the PATS like I’ve just described. But what I don’t know is whether manual pumps have PATS and if so how I go from there. I was hoping to wire up the stop solenoid on the pump with a live feed from the ignition. Does anyone know if this is the way to go ?
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:11 am

Hi Gemini,

No the garage won't do a refund, they blamed the ureliability of the epic system for throwing up false errors, no doubt in my mind that they are a bunch of cowboys, but I can't prove anything.
I would have taken a different approach and saved the £400 but the brother in Law thought he was doing the right thing by taking it to a so called mechanic. Well you live and learn eh?.
I've taken some pictures which I will post later. The bundle of wires on the pump is quite amazing!
I'll take one of the filter conversion next week for you
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby gemini » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:24 am

andyg will help you out with the epic pump :wink:

thats a new type tensioner you have
Image

heres how to set it

Image

alanwh wrote:I’m hoping I can wire out the PATS like I’ve just described. But what I don’t know is whether manual pumps have PATS and if so how I go from there. I was hoping to wire up the stop solenoid on the pump with a live feed from the ignition. Does anyone know if this is the way to go ?


all the smileys have pats, hence the key being taped to the barrell, the rim module for the pats is on the shut off solenoid on the pump, once removed it will run from the ignition
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:43 am

Ah Fantastic,

Thanks Gemini, you're a pal !

Is the rim module easy to remove? suppose I'll have a better idea when I see the new pump.
I’ve located a Bosch pump, cable, pedal and new timing cover for £120. I’m off to Preston
on Saturday to pick them up.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby MrMPuk » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:44 am

Is it the correct 145/146 pump and have the got the injector pipes?
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:57 am

Yep its the right pump so he says, I asked for a 145/146, will be inspecting the number on the pump very carefully !!

He says he will throw in the injector pipes but I was hoping to keep the original ones from the EPIC, are they a different fitting? Just didn't fancy having to try and thread ones off a banana up the turbo inlet manifold if I didn't have to.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby MrMPuk » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:06 pm

You will need to fit the bosch injector pipes.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:51 pm

Thanks MrM

While I think on,

I was wondering about the temperature sender unit.
Does anyone know if this goes through the ECU or direct to the dash.
If it's through the ECU, is there an easy fix if I'm going manual?
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby johns » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:46 pm

You should find two temp guage connections on the thermostat housing - the one pointing towards the back of the engine is direct to the dashboard, the one pointing towards the front drivers side headlight is for the ecu - just leave that one disconnected.
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:38 pm

Oh Gawd !!

Thought I had a pump lined up.... Here's the dealers reply.. 100ps injectors are blue aren't they?

"ONLY THING IS I MIGHT BE STRUGGLING ON A 686 PUMP, THE LAST 686 SOLD ON SAT, STOCK CHANGES DAILY THOUGH, I TAKE IT YOU ARE CONVERTING A TURBO TO NORMAL PUMP? THE 686 IS NOT A PROBLEM THOUGH, A 624 WILL PUMP RED OR WHITE INJECTORS AND I HAVE A FEW LEFT"
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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby alanwh » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:07 pm

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Re: Poorley Turbo, Bosch Pump conversion ?

Postby MrMPuk » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:10 pm

Image

Image

Image
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