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MK1 auto to manual conversion

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MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:07 pm

Hello,

I bought this Easter egg 1967 mk1 with a 2.8 V6 cologne and C3 autobox fitted. I will get a M5OD/M5R1, TK5 or FM146 transmission from the US as it bolts right up to my engine.

Now facing some issues placing a clutch pedal. The engine is so far back that there is not much room and the brake pedal is huge.

Anyone has some advice how to go about it?

Image

Image

Many thanks!
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby dumper » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:24 pm

Change the auto brake pedal for a manual brake pedal then you will have room for the clutch pedal
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby DougT » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:42 pm

It would be really great if those transmissions are an easy fit. More options for better 5 speed boxes.

But looking at the bellhousings for those transmissions on the 4.0 SOHC, the two top bolts look much narrower on the Cologne 2.8 block than on those transmission bellhousings. The 4.0 SOHC is supposed to be a Cologne engine but the bellhousing attachment points look different. Or am I missing something ??

It may just be the 2 top bolts don't line up and the rest work which would be fine.

So please give us an update when you match the transmission to the block. I hope it works as it would be great news.

Doug
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Luke » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:08 pm

what is the pedal box off? its not a transit one

also where will the gearstick come out?

looks a great project 8)
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Neil » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:08 am

why not auto ?
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:17 pm

DougT wrote:It would be really great if those transmissions are an easy fit. More options for better 5 speed boxes.

But looking at the bellhousings for those transmissions on the 4.0 SOHC, the two top bolts look much narrower on the Cologne 2.8 block than on those transmission bellhousings. The 4.0 SOHC is supposed to be a Cologne engine but the bellhousing attachment points look different. Or am I missing something ??

It may just be the 2 top bolts don't line up and the rest work which would be fine.

So please give us an update when you match the transmission to the block. I hope it works as it would be great news.

Doug


Doug, I am not 100% sure if it's exactly the same bolt pattern, but my research suggest so. I opened a thread on this over at an US Ford forum, but so far no response. I'm not getting a transmission from a 4L though, but from a 2.9 or 2.8. Anyhow, according to what I found online, all US 2.8/2.9/4SOHC/OHV share the same bolt pattern. I looked at some pictures as well and could not tell a difference.

Luke wrote:what is the pedal box off? its not a transit one

also where will the gearstick come out?

looks a great project 8)


Luke, I have no clue where the box is from to be honest. I would assume engine, transmission and pedal box came from the same donor, but the combination of 2.8 and C3 was fitted by Ford into a variety of cars in Europe and the US between 1974 and 1985, e.g. Granada/Sierra/Pinto/Mustang/Capri.

The gearstick will come out somewhere in the cargo area I suppose. On all aforementioned transmission, the gearstick is at the output side of the box. But I came across a post somewhere of a guy who fitted a MT75 taken from a Sierra I believe into a Transit. That box had the gearstick coming out at the back as well and he moved it. So I will need to do the same.

Neil wrote:why not auto ?


I'm asking myself the same question, I like the auobox, but the performance is terrible. I am not able to get it to drive faster than 80kmh/50mph. Steep climbs and I am forced to drive 30kmh/18mph) while the engine revs terribly high. It doesn't like to be treated that way. Fuel economy is a problem as well. At around 60kmh it goes into third gear and then its difficult to keep it in third. If the street goes just slightly uphill, it will drop below 60, go into second gear. I can then decide between driving 50kmh or push the throttle down and hopefully pick up enough speed to get into third again.

Thus, I must decide between rebuilding the transmission or fitting a manual one that may offer more benefits like 5 gears, better fuel economy and more control in the mountains.
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby DougT » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:09 pm

You obviously know your stuff so I feel that I am suggesting something that you will know already. But have you tried changing the Auto Fluid and giving it a new filter. ? It could be other things of course but old sticky fluid generally has that effect.

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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Neil » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:37 pm

yes a lot of people assume an autobox never needs a service and it goes forever
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:06 pm

DougT wrote:You obviously know your stuff so I feel that I am suggesting something that you will know already. But have you tried changing the Auto Fluid and giving it a new filter. ? It could be other things of course but old sticky fluid generally has that effect.

Doug


I don't know my stuff to be honest. I've spent several days going through forums looking at stuff other people have done to their Transits.
I'm not a mechanic and didn't know much about cars before I bought the Transit. I highly appreciate any thoughts and ideas on the issue!

I have changed the fluid, but not the filter. But that may be something worth trying.
I was not able to find a repair/maintenance manual for this box. I am not confident enough to open it up without more info. There's no autobox mechanic within a 700km radius of my location. - Okay did some digging now and changing the filter seems to be quite easy.

I've also read somewhere that the type of fluid may cause my issues. I didn't actually change the fluid, much came out when the engine was out and the mechanic told me that there would be no fluid left in the box and he had filled it up. Now, I don't believe that to be completely true. I probably have a mixture of different types of fluids in my box.

Neil wrote:yes a lot of people assume an autobox never needs a service and it goes forever


Exactly what I think happened to this box! Most likely hasn't seen any service whatsoever the past 30 years. Another reason why I want to get rid of it.
Last edited by Viviacolombia on Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby DougT » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:43 pm

This might be of help if the url works....

https://cardiagn.com/ford-c3-transmission-online/

Cheers

Doug
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:06 pm

That's gold! Thanks a lot, Doug!

I now have new hope that I can get the transmission running again. Or at least good enough for me to continue driving till I find someone who can give it a real good service.

I still think thought that my engine will thank me if I change over to a manual gearbox before driving it through the Andes.

Back to my original question, I believe the part highlighted in below picture to be the brake master cylinder. That is not the original mk1 one, is it?
Image

Just to shed some light on how I plan on getting the swap done. I know a mechanic who does auto to manual conversions, but had never seen a Transit before. So I have to prepare everything for him to carry out the work. The more I know the easier will it be to prevent any complications during the operation.
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby DougT » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:08 pm

The ringed item is the master cylinder, and not an original Transit item. Probably again the one from the donor - or at least the donor of the pedal box.

It seems that also you have the power steering pump still fitted to the engine (black thing with the cap to the left of the photo) although maybe it is not doing anything as there seems to be no belt. Do you have a power steering conversion as well. ?

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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:50 pm

DougT wrote:It seems that also you have the power steering pump still fitted to the engine (black thing with the cap to the left of the photo) although maybe it is not doing anything as there seems to be no belt. Do you have a power steering conversion as well. ?

Doug


I think I do. The steering is wonderfully smooth. The engine was out at the time the picture was taken. That's why there is no belt. Usually the pump is connected and works fine. I've seen this particular pump on some pictures of Grandas/Sierras, so I'm quite sure it's from the same donor as the engine.

So, if I get new pedals, I need to make sure the brake pedal fits my master cylinder, right?

The throttle is quite simple, it's just a cable and the clutch pedal only needs to match the clutch that's going in (and the room available). I suppose a manual gearbox does not need any connection to the throttle as the autobox does (kick-down cable and vacuum I won't need then)?
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby DougT » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:21 pm

I would think that the sensible option would be to try and find a Mk1 or Mk2 pedal box and master cylinder - LHD. Like everything, these are becoming rare, but can be found after much searching. Hopefully the original mounting points are still there.

I cannot see clearly what else is around the master cylinder mounting, but maybe you want to consider if you need a brake servo as well and if it will fit. This will affect the choice of master cylinder. And if you are looking at brake parts then maybe a conversion to disc brakes if you see the parts available somewhere - is it Short wheelbase or Long wheelbase as disc brake hubs are different ? SWB is 5 stud and LWB is 6 stud. Disc brakes will need a servo.

Power steering is not standard. So that has been added - the common route is to take it from a mk3 but your vehicle may have it from something else. Engine out accounts for the wire between the steering column and the pump !

I forgot to mention that the url for the C3 manual also allows you to download it as a pdf - there is a little icon at the bottom in case you haven't found it. Makes it easier to use and then you have it to keep !

Doug
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Re: MK1 auto to manual conversion

Postby Viviacolombia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:55 pm

DougT wrote:I would think that the sensible option would be to try and find a Mk1 or Mk2 pedal box and master cylinder - LHD. Like everything, these are becoming rare, but can be found after much searching. Hopefully the original mounting points are still there.


I've been watching ebay UK/Germany over the past weeks, but no pedal assemblies turned up - only for newer Transits. Some original(or remade) master cylinders yes, but no pedals. Transits were never sold in the Americas which makes it extremely difficult to get original parts.

Why would it be the most sensible option? because of ease of fitting?

I think a universal pedal assembly that suits my space and clutch requirements (all transmissions I could get have hydraulic clutches) may be easier after all - even if that means drilling more holes...

DougT wrote:Power steering is not standard. So that has been added - the common route is to take it from a mk3 but your vehicle may have it from something else. Engine out accounts for the wire between the steering column and the pump !


I'll need to educate myself on power steering before I can take a closer look at all the parts involved. Perhaps then I might figure out where it came from. But first I will focus on everything related to getting the engine power transferred to the tires.

Below picture shows the cockpit. Someone broke the side window and stole my stereo (now that that's gone, thieves have less incentive to break in :lol: ). But you can see that the steering wheel is not original. Previous owner told me the ignition lock came from a Mazda. Also the transit doesn't have a heater nor ventilation vents, so zero ventilation in cockpit.

Image

DougT wrote:I cannot see clearly what else is around the master cylinder mounting, but maybe you want to consider if you need a brake servo as well and if it will fit. This will affect the choice of master cylinder. And if you are looking at brake parts then maybe a conversion to disc brakes if you see the parts available somewhere - is it Short wheelbase or Long wheelbase as disc brake hubs are different ? SWB is 5 stud and LWB is 6 stud. Disc brakes will need a servo.


It's a short wheelbase van. Here are some pictures:
https://image.ibb.co/cPfeQo/front.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gPhR5o/back.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/dQc4rT/side.jpg

According to the registration, it's a 1967 model and was imported into Colombia in 1974. However, I looked up my chassis number on motomobils table (https://www.motomobil.com/ford-baujahrtabelle,7923.html) and that tells me it was built in December 1966 by Ford Germany in Germany.

I'll look into the brake conversion, thanks for pointing it out!

Last but not least, over the first 4000km consumption was around 12-15 mpg. Now it's 5 mpg. So I definitely have a problem.
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