Desperate for Mk1 help please

[Bevluvsrats]

Hi all. I don't know if this is the right board to post this to, we're kind of desperate so need to cover as many bases as possible so I've posted to a few different boards.

As some of you may be aware, Dad's got a Mk 1 Transit Autohome, affectionally known as Dragon Bus. She's his only mode of transportation and in the summertime he takes her to country and classic vehicle shows and exhibits her.

He's been having major problems with the brakes for the last couple of months, he's fitted a new master cylinder and replaced all of the brake shoes, but the problem persists. He's done so much that he's close to quitting completely, and she's such a beautiful vehicle that it'd be a travesty to let her go because of such a small problem. I really don't believe it's anything enormous, it's probably something simple that's being overlooked.

What I'm after is someone with Mk 1 Transit experience who wouldn't mind talking to my Dad about what he's done so far (as it's much more than what I've posted here).

If there's anyone who could help in the slightest, would you mind emailing me your telephone number, landlines please instead of mobiles as Dad's a pensioner and has already almost bankrupted himself on phonecalls trying to find brake shoes, lol.

my email address is bevluvsrats@aol.com

To have a look at the Transit in question, this is her Facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dragon-Bu ... 795?ref=ts

And her facebook group.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122124261167117

Many MANY thanks for any help.

Bev x

[TIMO]

Why doesntyour dad register on here mate? It's literally a mine of information onhere.
Questions are answered pretty quick too and there are quite a few with mk1s . Good luck anyway.

[Bevluvsrats]

Hiya, well, the fact that my Dad is quite proud of the fact he's a technophobe should tell you just how likely it is for him to even know how to switch on a computer, let alone how to join a forum, lol. That's why I'm doing it for him. (he's sitting here with me dictating at the moment)

In the beginning the first symptom was that the brakes locked on, particularly the front, it was found that releasing the pressure at the master cylinder end of the front brake pipe, the brakes came off.Dad deduced that the piston in the master cylinder wasn't returning, so after limping home and cooking the brake linings on the way, Dad dismantled the master cylinder, found the rubbers had disintegrated and so replaced them. Couldn't get a reasonable brake pedal from then on. Also during the bleeding, discovered one front and one rear wheel cylinder starting to leak. Replaced complete cylinders. He had previously replaced the other two at an earlier date. Still no pedal, and very reduced braking capability considering the size and weight of the vehicle. Over the years he's had fluid leakage on all 4 sets of linings at various times. He decided that this had glazed the surface of the lining, reducing it's effectiveness, but that still didn't explain the excess of movement on the pedal. He was then offered a Mk 2 master cylinder and servo in working condition which he fitted as one lump as he was told was interchangeable with a Mk 1 master cylinder. During re-routing the steel pipes to fit the new cylinder, he managed to fracture the front two and replaced them with modern copper. Unfortunately still a lot of travel on the pedal. He decided to obtain linings, shoes, anything he could get. He ended up getting a full set of brake linings, not specifically designed for a Transit but able to be cut down and riveted to his shoes. He now has a complete brake relining. Still no improvement in braking efficiency. It seems he can't bed the linings in because he can't get enough pressure on them. His current thought is that the master cylinder is from a Mk2 which has disc brakes on the front. Is there a difference in the internal construction of the master cylinder? He currently feels that the root of the problem is the master cylinder but where he goes next is anyone's guess, regarding the scarcity of the parts.

We appreciate your interest and would welcome any suggestions.

Bev

[El transito]

Given that all of the braking performance issues started after the Master Cylinder rebuild it is the obvious place to start. I don't know what the bore diameter is for either master cylinders but can assure you that it's critical they are replaced like for like. Disc brakes have a far greater surface area on the caliper pistons that the 4 front cylinders of the twin leading drum setup, hence the bore diameter of the replacement master cylinder could be smaller resulting in lower pressure to each wheel cylinder. Do you have the original cylinder to compare the dimensions? If not a trip to a good motor factors or Ford agent will confirm if the part numbers for both models are the same.
There is often an aluminium tag where the cylinder meets the servo, this has all of the cylinder details on it.


Hope this helps you on the right track

[whitemice]

Flexible brake hoses might have failed internally.

[Bevluvsrats]

Hi again guys, many thanks for your ideas. Dad's going to have a look at the bore diameter and compare with the old unit tomorrow. He forgot to tell me earlier that he's already changed all three flexible hoses. I shall keep you all posted.

Bev x

[whitemice]

So long as the correct procedure for adjusting and bleeding the brakes has been followed it's either vacuum or m/cylinder methinks.

[Bevluvsrats]

Thanks. Yeah, Dad used to work in the motor trade back in the 50s and 60s so he's bled and adjusted loads of different types, but this problem has really had him flummoxed. (and I believe that's the first time I've ever typed that word, lol). We were wondering about the vaccuum/pressure. My thought was that the pressure on the pedal has to be going somewhere so surely he must have a leak somewhere in the system that's letting out that pressure. He does rather suspect the master cylinder though, the more he thinks about it. Trouble is, where do you go to get a new one? He's already put new rubber seals into the original one, and that didn't work, hence getting the second master cylinder (the one from a Mk 2). The original seals completely disintegrated, so when he got the new set of seals he had nothing to physically compare them to. They all seemed to fit fine at the time, but it didn't fix the problem. Looks like we're back to square one with having to find another Mk 1 master cylinder or a new set of seals.

Bev x

[whitemice]

There's a place in uk that completely rebuilds and fully refurbs any m/c at good prices, can't get link as i'm on laptop at the mo' and i think it/s maybe on another mk1/2 forum and i can't remember my password , someone will come up with it/them by tomorrow though.probably.maybe..allegedly.

[Bevluvsrats]

Oooh, that could be very useful. Anyone else know of the place??

Bev x

[whitemice]

knew i had it somewhere, 'twas in my memory

my guesstimate is 60 quid.

http://www.pastparts.co.uk/

[Bevluvsrats]

Brilliant! Thanks!

An update for today is that we're going to go as general public tomorrow to the show we were supposed to be exhibiting at this weekend, in the hope that they might have a recon master cylinder at the autojumble. Failing that, while Dad was cleaning up his original one this afternoon to take for comparison tomorrow, he's found that the piston was stuck inside and not returning on the spring as it should be! Not sure if it was corrosion or what, but some damage may have occurred when he put the new rubber seals into it. Is yet another possibility and slight light at the end of the tunnel. He's taken it apart and reconditioned it so it runs smoothly now. All of your wonderful help is being stockpiled just the same though. We're all too used to thinking we've 'got it' only to find the problem's still there!

I owe you all big hugs.

Bev x

[El transito]

Brilliant! Thanks!

An update for today is that we're going to go as general public tomorrow to the show we were supposed to be exhibiting at this weekend, in the hope that they might have a recon master cylinder at the autojumble. Failing that, while Dad was cleaning up his original one this afternoon to take for comparison tomorrow, he's found that the piston was stuck inside and not returning on the spring as it should be! Not sure if it was corrosion or what, but some damage may have occurred when he put the new rubber seals into it. Is yet another possibility and slight light at the end of the tunnel. He's taken it apart and reconditioned it so it runs smoothly now. All of your wonderful help is being stockpiled just the same though. We're all too used to thinking we've 'got it' only to find the problem's still there!

I owe you all big hugs.

Bev x

That's great news, if you fail to get a replacement cylinder quickly, I have a honing tool that I can send you, it will resurface the bore of the cylinder (If it is not too badly damaged) and you can then "Re-seal" the original. it's another option but you will need another seal kit; or you can send the cylinder and seal kit to me and I will refurb it for free....................but I'm not back in the UK till September...

[Bevluvsrats]

Aww, bless you, I'll pass on your kind offer to Dad. We went to the show today, sadly no Master Cylinder there, but he's met up with a lot of friends of his, and made some new ones who are all very familiar with the bus and want to help if they can. Seems she's quite well known around without us realising quite how well known.

Dad's job for tomorrow is that he's going to make some kind of mock-up brake pedal system to see just what *is* going on inside the M/C, he did explain it to me but that was all of five minutes ago, and I have a memory like a fish. I shall update on his progress.

Many thanks again.

Bev x

[madmark]

i have noticed that you have a dirent master cylinder and servo fitted possible from a mk3-5 have you got the pedal travel correct