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Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

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Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:36 pm

Since recently replaced the esos solenoid the engine does not start instantly cold. It takes several cranking attempts before starting then is ok till the next overnight cold start. Once started the engine runs fine have just completed a 700km trip without any problems. I did remove &refit the injector pump during the esos replacement. I did bleed the injectors after re assembly and was carefull about retaining timings. Any suggestions would be appreciated
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Retrohowla » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:01 am

Epic pump or bosch conversion? If its a bosch then its bound to be simple, air leak on filter housing or fuel line banjo fittings,
If its an epic, and its not an air leak as above, im no help at all, first thing i did was scrap the epic on my TD
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:23 am

Thanks for your input
It is epic injector.pump it has served me well so I see no reason to change it. It's only since I replaced the stop solenoid so I suspect I've maybe caused the problem
Regards ken
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Retrohowla » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:21 am

Yeah I wasn't suggesting you change your pump, merely stating I have little experience with epic pumps as I converted mine. Yes it will be something you have disturbed, most likely an air leak somewhere, check any joint you broke open and if in doubt renew sealing washers etc
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:08 pm

Thanks for your interest much appreciated. I now believe the problem is the lack of cold start pre heating the pre heating light does not come on when the ignition is turned on . My Haynes manual shows a circuit diagram for this system but does not show where the controller is or any other components . More research needed !
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Ken
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby bazzer61 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:13 pm

Kenford did you manage to sort the problem in the end? If so please could you tell me what it was as I'm having exactly the same problem but haven't changed anything recently? Cheers
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby MinorMatt » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Sounds like a slight air leak to me - allowing diesel to drop back to the tank
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:18 pm

Well I am back to trying to solve the problem after putting it on the back burner due to other commitments.
Just to refresh. I changed the fuel shut off solenoid which came as an assembly with another solenoid whose function is not known to me. Since replacing this assembly the cold start system appears not to be working. Symptoms are
Glow plug light does not illuminate
After waiting for the airbag light to extinguish I crank the engine and most times it starts then dies .it then takes quite a lot of cranking before the engine starts. Once started it's ok & the engine starts & runs as normal
Questions
Should the glow plug light come on when the engine is not fitted with manifold heater ?
Does the ECU control cold starting
What else assists cold starting
Added note in Australia ambient temperature s is usually range from 10d Celsius upward.
I would be gratefull for any suggestion.
Cheers. Ken
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby pedracer » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:57 am

does it actually have glow plus? and have you done the "leak off mod"? have search on that. The forum is full of useful stuff!
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby MinorMatt » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:37 pm

Kenford wrote:Should the glow plug light come on when the engine is not fitted with manifold heater ?
NO - Glowplugs were never fitted to the 2.5di engine. They are not needed until it gets to sub -10 (ish) at which point the flame start is used.
Does the ECU control cold starting
It will advance the injection timing - on a non turbo this is done inside the pump
What else assists cold starting
Nothing
Added note in Australia ambient temperature s is usually range from 10d Celsius upward.
You shouldn't have any problems due to temperature
I would be gratefull for any suggestion.
Cheers. Ken


Even if the vehicle has a flame start/manifold heater it only operates in sub zero temperatures. Waiting for the airbag light to go out will have no affect on vehicle starting. I would still suggest that something isn't sealed correctly in the diesel system and its leaking back slowly when not in use.
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:02 pm

Thank you very much for all your information it's clarified things a lot . I could not remember if the glow plug light has ever come on or not and I must admit I've always waited till the air bag light went of before attempting to start the engine . It is a turbo engine so the Ecu may be the problem. I propose to dismantle and double check the timing and look for leaks then see how it goes. Once again thanks for your interest and input
Cheers
Ken
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Retrohowla » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:08 pm

Ken, I would suggest eliminating the filter housing and lift pump by setting up a small tank if diesel in the engine bay, directly feeding the injection pump. Get it bled up and running, then shut it off, leave it over night and see if you have the issue the next day. If it starts and runs without fault, you know you have an air leak somewhere between the main tank and injection pump. If the problem is still present. Then look deeper at pump/control issues
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:52 am

Well I decided to re check the pump timing t o do so I removed the diesel filter to get easy access to the flywheel timing hole . The timing was perfect so I reassembled the filter started the engine . Whoops diesel leaking from filter housing !
Had awfull trouble getting the lines & housing to seal up much swearing later I was successful . Well now the engine starts first go first thing in the morning all is well & gods in his heaven all this drama was apparently caused by me not bleeding the system after refitting the pump.
Thank you game set &match
Ken
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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Jim Archer » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:01 am

If it would run OK once started it wasn't down to not being bled of air when you did the valve, much more likely to be an airleak, and most likely the filter not quite seated properly on the filter head.

Worth checking the threaded fittings on the fuel pipe unions on the filter head, the return from pump to filter was the trouble on my CAV pumped Mk4 - and my Mk5 Bosch as it happens :roll:

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Re: Cold start problem 1997 turbo diesel.

Postby Kenford » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:03 pm

Thanks Jim I did bleed the system at the injectors at the time but I assumed not enough . This last effort I disconnected the fuel line and removed the filter mounting from the engine because I could not get the filter to re seal . I finally purchased a new filter and fitted it and still had problems one of which was I did not tighten the incoming lines enough . When I solved all these issues the original problem was solved. I noticed on my 2000 model van they have replaced the clamp Type housing that is on the 1997 version.
Any how I can now do some more oz touring
Cheers. Ken
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