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Mk5 Rear brake judder?

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Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby VMH » Sun May 07, 2017 10:48 pm

Hi.
I know this has been covered here before but i am realy struggling to sort this out and wonder if anyone has any other ideas.
My rear brakes started juddering badly suddenly on the way home from getting a puncture repaired. I took them apart and cleaned them up which helped but they were still doing it.
I tried fitting new shoes, grinding off the lips on the drums, chamfering the edges of the shoes, swapping the drums around, side to side, even jacked up the back end with the wheel bolts loose, ran the engine with it in gear and slammed on the brakes to centralise the drums.
I now have new pads and drums, all cleaned up, chamfered and fitting nicely but it is still doing it.
Every time i take them apart and clean them up it improves it for a few miles but gradually gets worse again.
Any other ideas?
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby ceurieusneus » Mon May 08, 2017 5:44 am

My rear brakes started juddering badly suddenly on the way home from getting a puncture repaired.
Puncture repaired? Back wheel?
Could it have something to do with this?
Have you tried to change the wheel?

Is the load always more or less the same?
Could it have anything to do with the Load Compensating Valve?

Please keep us informed as soon as you find the problem...
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby Mfr » Mon May 08, 2017 11:03 am

You could try eliminating the wheels by swapping the fronts to the back. Have you replaced the hardware? spring, etc. Are the handbrake cables free and even? Is there any signs of damage to the brake lines along the axle? denting or kinking?
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby dumper » Mon May 08, 2017 1:11 pm

I had a problem like this years ago trying to sort it put new drums shoes and wheel bearings on it it was still the same luckily at the time as part of my job I got all the parts for free I had given up on it and was going to live with it .
Then a member of the transit traveling community said have you swoped wheels front to back I said yes he said that's your problem swop em back it will be ok so I did and it sorted it out
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby VMH » Thu May 11, 2017 11:06 pm

I have swapped the wheels front to back at some point. Cant remember if it was before or after the problem started. I'm pretty sure it didn't coincide with it starting though.
Will try swapping them back and see.
I can feel it pumping through the pedal and through the hand brake if i pull it up when moving.
I did wonder about the load compensator valve. It's always with more or less the same load.
I didn't replace the springs but they look good and everything else looks normal.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby Islander71 » Fri May 12, 2017 4:06 pm

If this has only started to happen after changing a wheel, it would suggest its to do with how the wheel nuts were tightened up. Try gradually tightening one nut lightly then doing the opposite nut and working round, then repeating with some more force. I think the drums are very prone to distorting when the nuts are tightened.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby V184 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:37 am

Stick a new set of drums on it & clean back of wheels, as mentioned tighten up evenly & mark the wheel/drum position 8)
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby joinerman » Sat May 13, 2017 6:46 pm

As above & don't use a windy gun
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby VMH » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:41 pm

Well. I finally got chance to swap the wheels around, front to back, as Dumper suggested and while i was at it had a look at the bias valve.
Although the arm on the bias valve moved freely it was in the fully up position with hardly any weight inside which seemed wrong to me. As far as i can tell the arm should go up as the body goes down with increased weight giving more breaking power to the rear with more weight and less power when unloaded to avoid locking up at the back.
I adjusted this to give the arm room to move up when more weight is added, It was a good couple of inches on the adjuster, and now no more judder. :-)
Of course, i don't now know if it was swapping the wheels around or adjusting the bias valve which has cured it so will adjust the valve back to as it was, this weekend and see.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby mayon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:25 am

I just replaced two tyres on my 6 stud lwb transit, the tyre place put the two new tyres on the front and the older tyres on the rear.
Nicely ballanced and better to drive but when I used the brakes there was shudder which wasn't there before. So after reading this thread I loosened all the wheel nuts and retightened them with a torque wrench evenly at 80,100 then 120 pounds per foot. Its good now no shudder when braking.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby VMH » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:17 am

Well.
I adjusted the bias valve back to where it was originally and the judder is back.
My manual says the valve needs to be set up using special guages and tables but i'm sure a bit of trial and error will get it about right.
Will adjust it back and swap the wheels around again just out of curiosity.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby ceurieusneus » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:55 am

Thanks for keeping us updated :D :D :D
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby VMH » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Swapped the wheels back and still no judder. Well no pulsing through the pedal now but there is still a very slight judder and it has developed a bit of a squeal.
The breaking force in general is not as strong now but i figured that if the backs have been doing most of the breaking the fronts may be glazed.
I cleaned up the front pads, which need replacing also to be fair, and bled them which seems to have helped so just letting it all settle down and bed in then see how it is.
I think it is about as good as it is going to get now until i get new fronts but i will have a bit more of a play with the bias valve adjustment to see if i can improve it any more.
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby V184 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:55 am

VMH wrote:Swapped the wheels back and still no judder. Well no pulsing through the pedal now but there is still a very slight judder and it has developed a bit of a squeal.
The breaking force in general is not as strong now but i figured that if the backs have been doing most of the breaking the fronts may be glazed.
I cleaned up the front pads, which need replacing also to be fair, and bled them which seems to have helped so just letting it all settle down and bed in then see how it is.
I think it is about as good as it is going to get now until i get new fronts but i will have a bit more of a play with the bias valve adjustment to see if i can improve it any more.


try deadjusting the handbrake & pumping the footbrake, it might adjust the rears up, i would leave the light laden valve to the correct setting
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Re: Mk5 Rear brake judder?

Postby Heathen » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:42 am

For the sake of keeping things tidy, and not creating an individual thread... I'd decided to resurrect an ancient one instead.

I seem to have the above symptoms: slight judder, the brakes have locked up etc. However, my problems are accompanied by a loud screeching sound.

Is the screeching part of this problem? The Bias Valve?

The problem is relatively new, and the valve has not been adjusted since I've owned the van.

(6 stud lwb)
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