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un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

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un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Sun May 21, 2017 4:27 pm

So my camper has developed a problem with the front passenger side calliper, pulled on the drive last weekend and wheel was hot from due to the calliper binding.
So Thursday I unbolted it, removed the slides which where free and basically fell out, put a block of wood in the caliper and pushed the pedal (quite hard to start with) untill both pistons had come out to the touch the wood, the wound one all.the way back in, wedged a load of random stuff in to keep it there, and then wound the other one in, refitted the calliper, took it for a test drive and brakes where better than they've ever been !

Went out today and passenger one is starting to bind again, had to stop on the way home and give it a tap with a socket extension and hammer which managed to get it from gripping, then drive slowly around the back lanes for the last 4 or 5 miles not having to brake.

Is there anything I can do to keep it from binding ?
Will the pistons rotate so I can maybe work them around and in and out ?
Wd40 under the seals ?
Any other parts of the breaking system that can cause this ?

When I first got the van the driver side was binding and did what I had done above and has been fine since.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby Celticbiker » Sun May 21, 2017 5:59 pm

The pistons will rotate.
Don't use wd40 on caliper pistons if will cause the dust seals to swell which in turn will cause the pistons to be pulled too far back into the caliper after breaking causing long pedal travel next time you brake.
I clean the pistons with duck oil on a rag or tooth brush wipe dry with kitchen towel and lubricate with red rubber grease begs pushing back into the caliper.

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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Sun May 21, 2017 10:44 pm

Ok thanks for that, I'll crack on with it in the morning :)
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Mon May 22, 2017 2:32 pm

Took the calliper back off this morning, pumped the pistons out with the break pedal, pulled the rubber seals back and cleaned the pistons with some brake fluid and a tooth brush. There not even slightly rusty or worn in any way.

WP_20170522_09_55_56_Pro.jpg


Anyway a gave them both a good clean up, spun them back and forward, in and out etc, can now push them in by hand (stiff, but doable). When pushing them both back in i undone the bleed nipple so it got rid of the old fluid that was in the calliper aswell.
Went for a drive, both work as they should, but the passenger one still seems slow to release, if I stop on my drive which is a gentle slope, release the brake it wont start rolling back for maybe 5 seconds, and then when it does it starts with a creak from that side.
Also this side seems to be hotter after driving than the driver side.

Would this be due to the passenger one maybe still binding slightly or the drivers side not braking as much ?

Will repeat this again on the driver side and see if that makes a difference.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby CamperVanBeethoven » Mon May 22, 2017 10:21 pm

Well naturally I'd be thinking: if your pistons are good, what about the bore they fit in to ...?

Brake fluid absorbs water. It could have rusted slightly.

Not sure what the best way would be to clean out the bore. I imagine the tolerances could be tight but generally there's a rubber seal at the bottom of the piston (at least there is on bikes, it doesn't depend on a metal-metal seal)...

To be honest if it was me, it's not like motorbikes where calipers cost a fortune and have to come on the slow boat from Japan, taking weeks to arrive. I'd consider biting the bullet and fit a new caliper.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Mon May 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Yeah I did think of that, they have 2 seals, one inside at the base of the piston, then the one on the outside that moves in and out with the piston. There was a bit of gunky looking grease under the outer seal, but this cleaned of really easy, I wouldn't have thought there would be water in the caliper though, as if the seal had failed letting water get in it will most likely fail under pressure letting fluid out.
I'm going to repeat the cleaning etc on the drivers side and see how it goes before I jump in to buying new calipers.
Or I may even by new seal's and pop the pistons out to change them, that way they can at least have a full clean out and a bleed through with new fluid.

Were away in 2 weeks for a few nights in the van up in Yorkshire so need it to make it there and back without having to buy a load of new bits first, as that will then take away money from the camping budget.

If it can get us there and back with no dramas I don't mind treating it to a bit of a brake overhaul !
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby CamperVanBeethoven » Mon May 22, 2017 11:40 pm

I wasn't thinking so much of seal failure, but of the caliper becoming sticky because the piston won't retract because the bore surface is slightly rough with surface rust. Of course, another important factor ... perhaps an even more important factor ...is how well the sliding pins on the caliper slide. If they don't slide well, that's probably a large contributory factor.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby CamperVanBeethoven » Mon May 22, 2017 11:43 pm

Also ... I see two pistons there, one being held down with a clamp. If one slides better than the other, the brakes will go squint and bind on the sliding bolts ...
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Tue May 23, 2017 4:05 pm

Yeah wound one in with a clamp which then pushed the other out, then swapped it to the other piston and repeated untill they where both clean and was able to just about each one in by hand.
I don't think surface rust on the bores would be much of an issue as they sort of float on the rubber seal's, plus seeing the condition of the pistons I doubt there would be anything in there. If the pistons very rusty this would cause it to drag on the seals, but as you can see these are nice and shiny with not even a scratch on them.


I'm hoping that this time its sorted it out and now the reason there's the big heat difference between left and right is that the drivers side is starting to seize but is not binding.

Slides are fine, when the pistons where both wound in to refit pads I could literally slide the calliper side to side with no effort at all when it was all bolted back up.
Even when I first took the calliper off the slides just pushed out with ease.

Going to do the drivers side Friday morning then take it for a Lon drive at the weekend to see if it's any better.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:08 am

Went for a drive today, still binding on, was fine for a while and then it just started sticking again after a bit of harder breaking, gave the calliper a knock and then was ok all the way home when breaking gently. Picking up a good used one tomoz so will fit that and see how it goes.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby whitemice » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:09 pm

Be worth fitting a new flexi hose methinks.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:02 pm

whitemice wrote:Be worth fitting a new flexi hose methinks.


Yep, changed the calliper, bled the brakes, burst the drivers side front copper line, replaced that, re bled, went for a drive, seemed very underpowered, had to drop in to third for a small hill, pulled over to smoking passenger front brake, gave it a whack and drove home, drove fine after that, cracked bleed nipple and fluid spurted out, removed brake flexi, put compressor blow gun in one end and blasted 90psi and just got blow back from the same end, swapped to other end and same thing.

Picking up new flexis Monday !
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby ernie b » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:54 pm

Had a similar problem on a capri once upon a time
Problem was the flexi deteriorating with age
Where the pipe bends was pinching internally
When I pressed the pedal there was plenty of pressure to push through the pipe but when the pedal was released the pipe would hold fluid in the caliper stopping it releasing

Hopefully that will be your problem, easy fix just a bugger to track down


Strange you mention bursting a copper pipe, recently had a bit of an education about copper brake pipes. Apparently copper/nickel (cunifer) should be used for automotive applications not pure copper.
Though I've never personally had or heard of a failure a bit of digging on line turned up some interesting information which makes sense from an engineering and materials point of view.
Local motor factors had no problem supplying the cunifer pipe, catch being I had to ask for it. No ask, get copper.
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby mike En » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:19 am

ernie b wrote:Had a similar problem on a capri once upon a time
Problem was the flexi deteriorating with age
Where the pipe bends was pinching internally
When I pressed the pedal there was plenty of pressure to push through the pipe but when the pedal was released the pipe would hold fluid in the caliper stopping it releasing

Hopefully that will be your problem, easy fix just a bugger to track down


Strange you mention bursting a copper pipe, recently had a bit of an education about copper brake pipes. Apparently copper/nickel (cunifer) should be used for automotive applications not pure copper.
Though I've never personally had or heard of a failure a bit of digging on line turned up some interesting information which makes sense from an engineering and materials point of view.
Local motor factors had no problem supplying the cunifer pipe, catch being I had to ask for it. No ask, get copper.


Yeah bit of a hard thing to spot apparently, it breaks down internally and can create a sort of one way valve only letting fluid one way, then when it gets hot from rubbing it just makes the fluid expand and clamp the brake even harder.

Don't know what the pipe was tbh, think it was an original pipe though as it was rotten near the fitting going through the inner arch on a bend, heard a hissing noise when pushing the brake hard after bleeding and thought the master cylinder had popped a seal or something ! Got my misses to push the pedal while I had a look under bonnet and saw a fine mist coming from the pipe.

Glad it let go on my driveway and not on our way to Yorkshire next week !

But yeah fingers crossed that's the problem and hopfully it will be sorted Monday evening !
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Re: un seizing front callipers. mk4 .

Postby whitemice » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:58 am

8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIaGWURONRU
'' VOTE Kim Jong Unwell.
Mike writ '' a vote for lABOUR is a vote for islam and a conservative vote is a vote for islam and a vote for liberal is a vote for islam. ''
DBVM ''a vote for UKIP is a vote for islam''
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