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Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

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Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby lardster11 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm

Evening all.

Brain picking moment I'm afraid. I have a 2.5Di, converted to turbo from a 2.5TDi, but using the original 2.5Di Block, Pump, Banana Inlet etc.

I had the pump rebuilt and new injectors when I rebuilt the engine about 20k miles ago. It was still N/A then, so was running New Red Spot injectors and the 686-3 pump.

Last year it got turbo'd, but I kept the same injectors and pump after doing the mods on max fuel and Torque Sleeve. I appreciate it's recommended to go to Brown Spot Injectors, but as they weren't very old, I decided to get some more miles out of them.

Anyway, this year, I have intercooled it as well, and a net result of that was that it simply runs out of power at just over 70mph (it would do more pre-intercooler) so I came to the (hopefully logical) conclusion that the injectors simply couldn't get enough fuel in at higher RPM now the air was more dense.

Hence, I bought a set of 100PS Injectors and have fitted them today... After a bit of messing about with max fuel and Torque sleeve again, I've got pretty much the same performance as I had before, only I have considerably more smoke at tickover than I ever had before - in fact it NEVER smoked with the Red Spot injectors in.

I've played about with Max Fuel again, and checked the pin was still in the Torque Sleeve - nothing seems to make any difference at tickover. When it gets a few revs on, the smoke isn't as bad other than when it's properly booted, and even then it just leaves a puff on the road, so I don't think I'm far away with the settings... other than this excessive tickover smoke.

I'm concerned it won't pass an MOT like it, as there's too much, but I can't seem to dial it out. I almost swapped them back again earlier, but managed to convince myself to leave it for a bit!

Does anyone have any experience of this, or can suggest something I've overlooked in a big way?!

Cheers all - looking forward to hearing from you.

Happy Saturday.

Ben
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby lardster11 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:26 am

Ok, I'll assume the tumbleweed thread means no-one has suffered these same issues!

So, I've advanced the pump some more, wound the max fuel screw out and also put some more pre-load on the Torque Sleeve screw. Obviously with all the messing about with settings and the changes to try to reduce idle smoke, I have somewhat lost where I was, but anyway...

Idle smoke is now at a respectable level - hardly any once the engine is warm. It puffs a little when cold, but I can live with that.

Given it a run today and I'm getting 16PSI of boost with about 500 degrees of EGT at max load. It seems happier at the bottom end, but still runs out of top end speed and power when you get over about 60mph.

Probably without a pump with an LDA top now, it's about the best it's going to be... Does anyone have a hybrid pump they don't need any longer?!!
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby Jim Archer » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:03 pm

145 or 146 pump?

With 16Psi and 100PS injectors it should go like someone has just let a bomb off behind it.

The fact it seems to be getting slower makes me think you have a fuel flow problem, treat it to a new Ford quality fuel filter, check the lift pump, and double check the pump timing/belt.

I ran a 141 pump, 85PS injectors, and 20ish Psi, and it would accelerate from 60 to the governor at 85 in 10-15secs.

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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby lardster11 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:21 am

Thanks Jim.

It's a 686-3 pump - Can't remember if it's a 146 or 145 off the top of my head, but yes, one of them!

My bigger concern was not being able to get rid of the smoke at low idle, but that has improved significantly since advancing the pump a little further and adjusting the max fuel off. MOT in less than a month, so I'd really like it to pass that!

New fuel filter sitting in the shed, so I'll swap that at the weekend - it's not a Motorcraft, but a Mahle, which always fit well in my experience.

Will see how that goes and report back.

Ben
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby bambi mk 1 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:38 am

Throw a straight edge across the top of the injectors to check their heights.Two washers on an injector will make it run skite . :wink:
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby Jim Archer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:46 am

Not sure DI injectors will fit with 2 seals Mr B, they use a polymer thing about 4mm thick.

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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby bambi mk 1 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:52 am

They will Jim :twisted: The first one I had took a while to figure out .I never got caught with that again :lol: Some times the old seal stays behind.
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby Jim Archer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:02 pm

I somehow expected they might after posting :lol: They can ve a right f**ker to get off the injectors on occasion.

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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby Stule » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:29 pm

lardster11 did you ever got to the bottom of this problem what was the issue?
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby V184 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:20 pm

Jim Archer wrote:Not sure DI injectors will fit with 2 seals Mr B, they use a polymer thing about 4mm thick.

Jim

the one i did missed like a petrol with a shagged plug lead :lol:
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby lardster11 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:42 am

Hi guys

Apologies - should have updated the thread earlier.

Removed the injectors again to check for doubled up seals as suggested by Jim, but no such luck!

Did a bit more playing about with timing and governor screw/smoke screw but there was little or no improvement at tickover. Checked the torque sleeve was free and in the same position as before, and that the pin hadn't dropped in. Both fine.

In the end I reverted back to the Red Spot 76PS injectors over the 100PS Blue ones and the smoke was gone. Hence either one of the new injectors was playing up and causing all the issues, or they were all simply all too much to keep the smoke down at tickover.

Back on the 76PS and I'm running 16PSI boost without ever getting near to (indicated) 400 degrees EGT.

Obviously now there's been so much playing about with adjustments its hard to know exactly where we are, so once the weather improves I guess I'd better dial the pump back in and see where we're at!

All the best

Ben
1998 LWB SHT 190 & 1986 Laser Capri :)
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby Stule » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:47 am

lardster11 wrote:Hi guys

Apologies - should have updated the thread earlier.

Removed the injectors again to check for doubled up seals as suggested by Jim, but no such luck!

Did a bit more playing about with timing and governor screw/smoke screw but there was little or no improvement at tickover. Checked the torque sleeve was free and in the same position as before, and that the pin hadn't dropped in. Both fine.

In the end I reverted back to the Red Spot 76PS injectors over the 100PS Blue ones and the smoke was gone. Hence either one of the new injectors was playing up and causing all the issues, or they were all simply all too much to keep the smoke down at tickover.

Back on the 76PS and I'm running 16PSI boost without ever getting near to (indicated) 400 degrees EGT.

Obviously now there's been so much playing about with adjustments its hard to know exactly where we are, so once the weather improves I guess I'd better dial the pump back in and see where we're at!

All the best

Ben



Ok thanks mate when you try and get better results please post so everybody can have a help with your experience.
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Re: Turbo'd 2.5 DI - Smoky at Tick Over - Bosch Pump

Postby cherniy_chack » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:11 pm

Hello, transit!
The red nozzle 76 hp and the blue 100 hs differ little in bandwidth. They have 5 holes each. The red holes have a diameter of 0.22 mm, and the blue one has 0.225 mm. The difference in the throughput is less than 5%.
The nozzles of Stanadine have a regulated height of the needle ascending 0.315 mm.
This is approximately 1/2 ... 3/4 turn of the restrictive screw.
If you do not control the height of the lifting of the needle, the nozzle holes are filled with coke, their throughput decreases and the engine power decreases.
I have this happened many years ago.
After the injectors removed lay in the air, the coke was softened and was flushed with jets of fuel. Therefore, after they were reinstalled, the engine returned power.
The blue jets were "made in China"? :lol:
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