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MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

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MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:38 pm

Hi All, I am hoping to get some help solving what should not have been an issue in the first place with my transit.
I have an 1989 2.5TD manual transit and last week the starter motor died so I replaced it and the battery was disconnected for a week and when all was put back together the motor turns over very well but no ignition at all.
I have gone thru the forum and tried a couple of things as in I have found no fuel was coming to the motor as the fuel shut off solenoid was not opening, I have removed and tested this which works fine so I then re wired the solenoid to work manually off 12 volt which got the motor to fire but not start and lots of black smoke from the exhaust, it appears something else is stopping it from starting.
The starting keys and lock system has been broken by the previous owner therefore the van started with any key and the pats led does not light up at all and never has in my time owing it, it used to run fine however I think the pats system has kicked in somehow and I cant work out how to get it going.
Any help or things to try would be very much appreciated.
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby Altransit » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:52 pm

Is it an original TD, as in, does it have a Lucas EPIC pump, or has it had a Bosch manual pump conversion :?:
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:16 pm

Hi Altransit, it has the Lucas pump in it. Totally standard I believe except for the ignition as it has been tampered with by a previous owner hence no coded key just put anything into the plastic base from the key lock cylinder and turn it, the motor started every time no trouble till now....It is driving me mad...
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby Altransit » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:34 pm

I think that the coded keys came in in 1995, with the Mk5 Smiley front, so your van wouldn't have had PATS. I misread your original post and thought yours was a 1999 :oops:

Are you sure that it's nothing as simple as a faulty ignition switch :?: It's quite a common failure on these :)
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby AndyG » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:11 pm

You may have left a small cable off the battery :idea:
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:34 am

Hi Altransit, is there a way to bypass the ignition switch to start it, I have tried to start with a large screwdriver on the starter solenoid but with same result as using key, if I manually open the fuel shut off solenoid it fires but wont start as if something electrical is stopping it from running hence I thought it was the pats system however if mine is pre pats what else could it be ...

Andyg, I will check the battery connections this morning for any cables not connected however I was sure I had them all connected..

Thanks for the help, I need to get this van running again and am hoping it is just a minor issue..
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 am

Sorry people just went over my first post again and I gave the wrong year model, mine is a 1998 not an 1989, sorry my bad.... So being a 1998 model I now can assume it does have pats in yes ??
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotgcoalman » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:09 am

not sure about the TD.
but on the di the main earth strap is held by 1 of the starter bolts.
when you changed the starter you did re connect the earth didn't you. :?:
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:05 am

gotgcoalman wrote:not sure about the TD.
but on the di the main earth strap is held by 1 of the starter bolts.
when you changed the starter you did re connect the earth didn't you. :?:


Hey gotgcoalman, thanks for your input, I checked all cables and all is where it should be and nice and tight.
I have just been up trying again and don't know if should be but while cranking the engine over the check engine light stays on ??
Other than that it turns over fine and after 10 seconds or so black smoke emits from the exhaust and it trys to fire but just doesnt start just, why why why.....
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotgcoalman » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:24 am

Hopefully MinorMatt will be along shortly (He's a TD guru)
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby Altransit » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:18 am

If it is 1998, then it will be a Lucas EPIC system, and there's nothing you can bypass with these, you need to find the fault, which the check light is showing that you have.

You should also have a red (flashing) LED in the dash to show the status of the PATS system. It will flash slowly when at rest to show that PATS is enabled. It should go solid when you turn on the ignition, and then go out if all is well :)
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:32 am

Altransit wrote:If it is 1998, then it will be a Lucas EPIC system, and there's nothing you can bypass with these, you need to find the fault, which the check light is showing that you have.

You should also have a red (flashing) LED in the dash to show the status of the PATS system. It will flash slowly when at rest to show that PATS is enabled. It should go solid when you turn on the ignition, and then go out if all is well :)


Hi altransit, yes, the check engine light is on while trying to start but no red led, it has been disabled somehow, lots of black wires (4) under the steering wheel cover have just been cut and the ignition key assembly has been removed, just the little white electrical switch junction remains (used to be in the base of the ignition switch assembly) which you could start the van with any key stick screwdriver or whatever you could put into it and turn. This all worked great from when I purchased the van till now..
I assume the pats has been disabled to some point as the missing bits would indicate and the led has never done anything in my time with it.
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby AndyG » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:16 pm

When was the timing belt last changed :?:
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby gotthebug » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:57 am

AndyG wrote:When was the timing belt last changed :?:


Hi AndyG,
Timing belt is approximately 40k old and van has 220k on it now.

Just another update, I had a mobile mechanic out yesterday and he couldn't get it going after 3 hours and $250 but he had a damn good go at it... He tried tow starting it and many other methods, no codes from the computer at all, no flashing led, engine light although on when cranking once towed to try to start it goes out but still does not fire at all. He disconnected the inlet feed to the pump from the filter and it tries very hard to fire up then dies so he bled all injectors and pump of air and tried again no result...
His diagnosis was that either the pump has an electrical fault i.e timing solenoid issue or the immobiliser is causing the issues and not letting the motor fire however with some all most of the black wires under the ignition cut or re joined to other wires, where do we start to find the fault..
His advice was to part it out and start again with another van and anything other than a Transit this time......Thanks...

Help, I really want to save this van it has been good to me up till now, what else can I try...Is there any way to totally disconnect the PATS system as I feel this is what is not allowing the motor to fire up as everything else works fine...
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Re: MK4 Transit wont start after replacing starter motor

Postby MinorMatt » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:20 pm

No idea how the PATS system was bypassed.

The only way to do it is to fit a non PATS ecu, or fit a new ECU with coded PATS module and keys

By putting 12V accross the stop solenoid you may have fried it, it runs on a Pulse Width Modulated basis.

I would start by checking fuses 32 and 33 and the fuse in the auxillary fuse box in the engine bay. I would then fit a non PATS ecu (PM me for info) and hope you haven't killed the stop solenoid.
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