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Brakes , what brakes !!

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Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:38 pm

Hi all, well I've just rebuilt my capliers (see a previous post) and bolted them back to the van (mk5 banana swb 2.5di). Connected the hoses, filled the master cylinder, got the misses on the brakes then cracked the bleed nipples. Went thorough the usual brake bleeding process. Shouting at wife to stick pedal to floor whilst I watched the pipe for air. A anyway got all the air out but still no brakes. Then I noticed a wheezing noise coming from around the master cyclinder and servo whilst she pressed the pedal. Taken note of this I held the servo unit together and the misses said the pedals started to get hard. I'm thinking a shot servo but just thought I'd check the transit gurus to find out if this is the systems of servo giving up.
Any advice be most appreciated
Paul
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby gotgcoalman » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:37 pm

Pressing the pedal to the floor can "flip" the seals in the master cylinder :(

No pedal = master cylinder or air still in system or a fluid leak.
servo related = rock hard pedal with reduced braking effect.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:12 pm

I couldn't find any leaks, or wasn't losing any fluid but there was a weezing noise coming from the servo. This seemed to stop when I held the round black unit together, thus making me think the server diaphragm had perished or something along them lines. Are there any tests I could try on the master cylinder ?
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby Chug » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:43 pm

If you managed to bleed them then the master cylinder is working enough to be pushing fluid, but it may be because it had no resistance and may fail with resistance from the caliper.

Its a dual system, Do the rear brakes still work ok? and was the engine running?
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:38 pm

I haven't tried the rear brakes yet as the front end is up,on axle stands (just refurbed the front calipers). I have run the engine but still the pedal goes to the floor. Could bleeding the rear brakes make a difference ?? I'm not to keen on buying a new servo and master cylinder till I've tried everything I can first. This van is slowly starting to break me :(
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby Chug » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:08 pm

if you haven't touched the rear brakes and as its a dual system having separate pipes from the master cylinder to the front and to the rear, if the rear brakes work then you know the servo is ok, and rear section of master cylinder.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby joinerman » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:32 pm

As Mr Coalman says pressing the pedal to the floor can flip the seal over or tear it as it goes beyond its normal limit in it's tube, beyond this limit the bore will have a harsher surface & can tear or score the seal.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby cherniy_chack » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:40 am

What was the reason for locking the front brake discs?
We expressed several options and we are interested in knowing the reason.
What was done to eliminate the blocking of the front brake discs?
What is the system for dividing the contours of the brake system: front-rear or diagonal. Front left-rear right, front right-rear left?
Is there an anti-lock system?

Answers to these questions will help to give the right recommendations.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:01 am

Cheers fo all the help, ille try and give you some mor backg undo info and see if that helps.
WHen I picked the van up it had been standing in a field for 12 months, so everything wasn't as "free running" as a used van. Thus when I t tawe the van it didn't have any front brakes but the handbrake was fine. I stripped the from calipers and found that the Pistons dust boots had persisted and rotted into the calliper as well as the Pistons rusting. Anyway I ordered a caliper service kit, cleaned them out, rebuilt, regreased and all was good. Reattached them to the van, started the bleeding process. Like I said the misses would start pumping were it was slowly getting hard, then all is sudden the pedal would go to the floor and loose pressure. I presume it's a front - back setup as both front capliers would start to bite when the brake would be pressed but now there's nothing at all. Could the driving of the van with siezed in Pistons produce to much pressure and "blow" the master cyldinder or any other seals ?? I've got a Haynes but it's no help. Would it be worth draining the cylinder and taking it off to check anything (are there visible checks I could do) ??
Sorry for the long explanation but I really don't fancy buying parts that don't need changing as it's slowly emptying the "restoration funds" account

Thanks
Paul
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby Chug » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:20 am

Paul,

the M/c is easy enough to remove, just a couple of nuts and the pipes, once removed there is a circlip in the end that you remove to enable the piston and seals to be removed for inspection. There is an exploded view from a mk3 M/C here that should be pretty identical.

http://www.fordopedia.org/parts-catalog ... -mk3/E2.10

HTH
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby cherniy_chack » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:56 am

The sudden failure of the brake pedal can be caused by the fact that when the air was removed from the system, a rusty brake pipe was damaged.
They are made of steel and rust very actively.
If the level of the brake fluid in the reservoir decreases, you should inspect the condition of the brake pipes under the machine.
If the level of the brake fluid in the reservoir does not decrease, the cause of the failure of the pedal may be a malfunction of the master cylinder.
It must be replaced.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:02 pm

Thank you all for the advice. I've just spent all day grinding out the sills and outriggers (what a day !!). Hopefully the weather will stay good and ille whip off the master cylinder and give it a close inspection. I think driving the van with the capliers seized has giving the master cylinder a good hammering and it'll be a straight replacement fix (please God be a simple fix).
Ille keep you posted
Paul
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:34 pm

Just about to order a new master cylinder but got stumped when asked if the van has ABS. As ive only just had the van I couldnt answer. Anybody tell a numptie (me) how to spot if the vans got ABS. Also is there a special way to bleed a ABS brake system ??

Cheers
Paul
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby cherniy_chack » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:02 pm

Mk5 99 years probably has ABS.
You can find out whether or not the ABS unit is available after decoding the machine's VIN code or by inspecting the brake pipes coming out of the master brake cylinder.
If the pipes go directly to the front wheels from the main brake cylinder, there is no ABS unit.
Removal of air from the brake system having an ABS unit is performed in the same way as from a system without ABS.
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Re: Brakes , what brakes !!

Postby fuzzedup » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:05 pm

Ignore the last post, I just stuck my head under the bonnet and followed the pipes and they just go straight to the calipers. That makes my life a bit easier :)
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