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Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Transit Mk3, 4 & 5(smiley front) Forum. All Transits 1986 - 2000

Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:32 am

Hi all,

2000 km ago changed timing belt myself (first time on a transit). Manual tensioner, so quite possible I haven't tensioned it correctly.

Engine runs on straight vegetable oil, and its winter here so single digit temperatures. Fuel is quite thick.

Driving my 98 TD cab chassis on hwy, 3500 rpm. Thought I heard a new noise, few minutes later loss of power, white smoke, engine nailing fairly badly.

Going outside to pull it apart now. My question is, can I just retime and retension this belt (assuming no damage to teeth on belt), or does it now count as used?

I have ordered a new timing kit from ebay with the new automatic tensioner, but it could take up to a month to get here.

Need this truck going for work, I could run on straight diesel to lessen the load on the pump until the new belt gets here.

Thoughts?
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:23 am

The plot thickens...

Ripped the front off, pinned it up... perfect, first time!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e1sokrw2s6d43 ... 6.jpg?dl=0

Although there is this much slack on the belt. Is this ok?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr60vzdw6np3z ... 4.jpg?dl=0

Hmm, bit oily on the exhaust manifold... Lets have a look down the oil filler...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0x4co497ixn6j ... 4.jpg?dl=0

Uh oh. I don't think that push rod should be there...

Even worse is that valve spring missing its hat & keeper?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c3f0k8uhpnaiv ... 4.jpg?dl=0
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby dumper » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:57 am

Remove the rocker box to get better look at valve rockers it looks like you have dropped a valve and you will have damage to cylinder head/ piston and bore and a bent conrod
MK 8 L4 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:22 am

I think you're right dumper.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xnft5ur1bkl6 ... 2.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yy1rhbtc7ykd ... 0.jpg?dl=0

Collets nowhere to be seen.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sesvaqad944s8 ... 2.jpg?dl=0

Quite bad wear on the spring where the retainer sits.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y8bhsy29zg0xe ... 1.jpg?dl=0

I reassembled anyway with bits off a spare head had I have. The valve stem notably sits higher than the others, indicating trouble in the combustion chamber. I'll rip the head off it tomorrow... :(

I'm guessing bits of valve will be found in the piston, so engine out time.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby dumper » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:44 am

Seeing that the valve stem is is sticking out of the head if it moves up and down it may have not snapped the head off the valve and done a lot of damage to piston get the head off and have a look
MK 8 L4 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
dumper
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby cherniy_chack » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:01 pm

dumper wrote: get the head off and have a look

Yes.
An autopsy will show.
It is necessary to check up a condition of directing plugs of valves of saddles of valves.
It may be necessary to replace the guide bushings.
Then you will need to prune the valve seat.
I would replace all valves, springs, springs and valve biscuits.
Mandatory-stuffing box.
It may be more profitable to buy a serviceable head.
In Ukraine, this head is worth about $ 100.
In Poland, expensive. And there is no problem with delivery.
Motor atmospheric or TD?
There is a difference in the design of the heads.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:25 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikp7i1bnsgxfu ... 3.jpg?dl=0

Huzzah! Found some pieces of valve collet...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7xgeqam0d4pb ... 3.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b98okrqj0ux0e ... 4.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndkhuecva88gk ... 6.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9x4o58df3raci ... 1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/58tarx4glh34z ... 1.jpg?dl=0

Oh well :(

Is there a guide for engine swaps? It's a DI Turbo with air conditioning. Would appreciate any tips and tricks to make life easier. I have a Haynes on the way but will take a few days to get here.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby dumper » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:37 pm

Remove the engine and gearbox as a unit after removing ancillarys and front panel and radiators or you can just remove engine off the gearbox in situate but it makes it easier line up gearbox out of the van
If the bore is not damaged why not put in new piston and cylinder head or take head to specialist and see if head can be saved by sciming and new valve seat
MK 8 L4 H3 Motorsport campervan
Past camper vans
1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
dumper
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby B4ndit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:04 pm

there is a guy on facebook self build camper vans name of dave owen selling a complete ldv with a 2.5 banana engine done 46000 wants 450 for the van complete if that's any help
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Chug » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Oh the 2nd thread I read on here today with an engine fecked, sorry to hear of your trouble, and the turbo engines are getting hard to find now, well there are one or two about at silly money, and there was a referb one on gumtree though and that didn't seem too bad IIRC

EDIT: yeah as Dumper said, remove the engine and g/box together, otherwise trying to line the engine up to go back onto the gearbox is a right feck about and can damage the g/box input shaft.
1991(J) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
1994(L) twin wheel tipper 2.5di
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:07 am

The bore doesn't look damaged. I can still see the cross hatching.

Going to try and get head fixed, check rockers for cracks.

Drop the sump, pull number two piston and replace with second hand item with new rings.

Button it up and see what happens.

Are the pistons press fit on the rods or circlip?

Can anyone supply (or recommend) a single piston and rings to suit and a single injector bearing in mind I'm located in Australia?
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby cherniy_chack » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:58 pm

Piston pin on lock rings.
If only the piston is damaged, but the liner surface is not damaged, only one piston with rings and finger can be replaced. Such are sold.
You can buy separately one valve, a spring and all to fix the spring with the valve.
It is possible to remove the cylinder block / motor without removing the gearbox and it is also easy to insert.
Just five days ago I was engaged in such work.
The main thing is to hook the cylinder block / motor so that the suspended unit is hooked on the center of gravity that along that is across.
If there is a special puller of engines, we call it "goose", do not remove the hood.
If there is no "goose", you can remove the hood, mount two pyramids and a beam with a hoist between them.
The car is rolled to the hoists and rolled away from the tackle.
I do not have a goose, I rent it from a friend.
We had to make two pyramids and put a beam between them.
Hang tal on the beam.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby cherniy_chack » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:56 pm

Here is a photo of this lift "goose"
DSC01167.JPG

Here I remove the motor from the body.
The motor is hooked incorrectly-the bottom of the pallet is not parallel to the ground.
With the excavation of the motor this is not important.
This will interfere with the installation.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby Fat80y » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:57 am

Thanks Cherny.

I'm definitely going to try and salvage my engine first. Cheapest long block I have found is $2500 + shipping.

I've found a second hand piston, injector and some new rings in Australia. Should arrive next week.

The spare head I have is a new china casting I believe.

Questions:

1. Can I fit my turbo injectors into the china head (I'm assuming it's a NA head) Are the injector seals / bores the same?

2. Can I reuse the head bolts?

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far.
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Re: Timing Belt Skipped a Tooth

Postby finn_mccool » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:53 am

If it's the spine type head bolt they should always be renewed.
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