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2000 LWB 190 Problems

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2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Skooter » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:04 am

Hi my name is Andrew and I'm an Engineer from New Zealand

We have a wee problem with our 2000 LWB 190 2.5l Turbo Diesel Transit.
The engine check light came on and it went into 'limp' mode, It won't go above 3000rpm.
We took it into a Ford Dealer and they ran a diagnostic on it and came back with these error codes.

1401- EGR DPFE Sensor
P1402 - EGR Position sensor
P1184 - PDS2 Circuit low. Pedal demand sensor
P0401 - EGR Flow insufficient. Exhaust gas recirculation.
P1170 - Engine shut off malfunction.

I have replaced the DPFE sensor and put in a replacement accelerator pedal (with potentiometer)
I've also overhauled the EGR system and cleaned it all out. The EGR valve in functioning correctly, however
we are still having the same problems, it runs fine for a few seconds then slows right down.
As for the Engine shut off malfunction, I'm pretty sure the problem lies with the Fuel shut off solenoids, there are 2 of them, so which one is
faulty I'm not sure. Any help is much appreciated as it is one of our work vehicles and we need it back.

Thanks

Regards

Andrew
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:04 pm

Welcome :D

Skooter wrote:1401- EGR DPFE Sensor..........................................Ignore
P1402 - EGR Position sensor....................................Ignore
P1184 - PDS2 Circuit low. Pedal demand sensor.............replace or repair (as you have)
P0401 - EGR Flow insufficient. Exhaust gas recirculation...Ignore
P1170 - Engine shut off malfunction............................Check plug connections at rear of pump for backing off and corrosion

I have replaced the DPFE sensor DPFE :?:

I'm pretty sure the problem lies with the Fuel shut off solenoids, there are 2 of them, so which one is
faulty I'm not sure.
2 of them :?: News to me :!:

Check the resistance of the ESOS (electronic stop solenoid) with a meter across pins 2 and 3 on the back of the pump :!:
The resistance should be between 1 and 3 ohms :!:

This diagram should help :!:

The grey around two of the terminals are your calibration resister terminals and should help you locate the correct pins when checking with a small mirror :wink:

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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:18 pm

The only ESOS that I know of, is this one :!:
Number 127 assembly :D
Image

It is paired up with Rotor A (feed actuator) so I guess both are changed as a pair :|
If you're going to pull it apart, make a careful note which way the plunger goes and any shims, making sure that you have new gaskets/O rings as required :wink:
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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Skooter » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:26 pm

Andyg wrote:Welcome :D

Skooter wrote:1401- EGR DPFE Sensor..........................................Ignore
P1402 - EGR Position sensor....................................Ignore
P1184 - PDS2 Circuit low. Pedal demand sensor.............replace or repair (as you have)
P0401 - EGR Flow insufficient. Exhaust gas recirculation...Ignore
P1170 - Engine shut off malfunction............................Check plug connections at rear of pump for backing off and corrosion

I have replaced the DPFE sensor DPFE :?:

I'm pretty sure the problem lies with the Fuel shut off solenoids, there are 2 of them, so which one is
faulty I'm not sure.
2 of them :?: News to me :!:

Check the resistance of the ESOS (electronic stop solenoid) with a meter across pins 2 and 3 on the back of the pump :!:
The resistance should be between 1 and 3 ohms :!:

This diagram should help :!:

The grey around two of the terminals are your calibration resister terminals and should help you locate the correct pins when checking with a small mirror :wink:

Image


Hi, thanks for that, I'll check the resistance.
DPFE refers to "Delta Pressure Feedback of EGR" this sensor is supposed to measure the EGR flow by measuring the pressure differential across a fixed orifice. It appears that they have a reputation for being unreliable.
The two solenoids I referred to included the one on the top of the pump, that diagram clears that up, thanks.
Would a fault in the ESOS cause the ECU to govern the motor the way it is or is there likely to be another fault causing this?

Thanks

Regards
Andrew
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 pm

The ESOS not working (correctly) or not reacting within a specific time, will put the system into LOM (Limp Home Mode) :roll:
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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Frag » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:55 pm

Never seen a D.P.F.E sensor on a U.K turbo diesel,most be a foreign territories or emmisions requirement :?:
Does this mean your van has a Catalytic convertor fitted?
Twincam petrol transits have it & cars,not seen on a diesel before :?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:17 am

Skooter wrote:DPFE refers to "Delta Pressure Feedback of EGR" this sensor is supposed to measure the EGR flow by measuring the pressure differential across a fixed orifice. It appears that they have a reputation for being unreliable.

:? :?

Nope :!:
Doesn't work that way :o

We have a vacuum regulator bolted behind a black plate fixed to the scuttle panel (controlled by the ECU via a pulse width modulated current)
The ECU controls the amount of vacuum from the data it receives from various components, of which include the temperature of the engine, accelerator position (fueling demand) and of course the EGR valve it's self :!:
The EGR valve actually sends it's varying position back to the ECU which then calculates just how much more or less vacuum is required, in order to keep it inside the pre determined map :D

Hope I've explained it okay :!:
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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Skooter » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:30 pm

Andyg wrote:
Skooter wrote:DPFE refers to "Delta Pressure Feedback of EGR" this sensor is supposed to measure the EGR flow by measuring the pressure differential across a fixed orifice. It appears that they have a reputation for being unreliable.

:? :?

Nope :!:
Doesn't work that way :o

We have a vacuum regulator bolted behind a black plate fixed to the scuttle panel (controlled by the ECU via a pulse width modulated current)
The ECU controls the amount of vacuum from the data it receives from various components, of which include the temperature of the engine, accelerator position (fueling demand) and of course the EGR valve it's self :!:
The EGR valve actually sends it's varying position back to the ECU which then calculates just how much more or less vacuum is required, in order to keep it inside the pre determined map :D

Hope I've explained it okay :!:



Hi, sorry, I've been off the grid for a while, working on Japanese vehicles, I'm sorry but they are just so much better in almost all respects!.

Anywho, I know the actuator you refer to, I have already dealt with that, it was full of soot! That surprised me as it has a "clean air" feed to and from the air box, the air filter was full of soot too so partially burned diesel is making its way into the airbox, either through an exhaust leak or a more serious problem. Anyway The sensor which I replaced was mounted to the same black plate as the actuator and has a pressure line to the induction pipe just forward of the vacuum actuated butterfly valve, it goes through a small orifice (1.0 mm or under) and then to the sensor that a ford technician ( as useless as they have proved ) told me was a DPFE sensor.

Getting back to the fuel pump, do you have any more diagrams of it?

Thanks very much guys, I appreciate all your advice and knowledge, I can say without reserve that I hate working on Fords! Except the Japanese ones which are Mazdas anyway.

Regards
Andrew
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:36 pm

Only this, I'm afraid :!:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10236

And colour photos one day, when mine packs up :!: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Skooter » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:46 am

Andyg wrote:Only this, I'm afraid :!:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10236

And colour photos one day, when mine packs up :!: :lol: :lol:


Thanks for that mate.
I measured the resistance of the ESOS and it came back at 1.5-1.6Ω
However, there is obviously a fault as every time without fail that you try and shut it off it still runs for 35-45 seconds, it shuts off instantly when you turn the key back on though after trying to shut it off. And of course it is still in Limp Home Mode and the engine check light is on.
Its starting to annoy me this Van!

Regards
Andrew
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:07 am

:idea: There could be debris stopping the plunger from working :!:
Have you tried removing and cleaning the ESOS :?:
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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Skooter » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:39 am

Andyg wrote::idea: There could be debris stopping the plunger from working :!:
Have you tried removing and cleaning the ESOS :?:


Yeah I did, Both of the solenoids. I checked the O-rings too and they looked fine. I'm looking into replacing the solenoids, only problem is that genuine British Ford parts are gold plated, NZ$1500+ 12.5% tax for a new accelerator pedal assembly, I ended up getting a used one.
Could there be a fault in the ECU itself causing a delay in activating the ESOS?

Regards
Andyroo
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby AndyG » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:19 am

Skooter wrote:Andyroo
:lol: :lol: :wink:



These ECUs have proved to be extremely reliable :!:
Having said that, any electronic equipment can go faulty, but the ECU (at least in this case) has it's own "watchdogs" built in :!: :o (which can take over and if necessary, shut the whole lot down :shock: )

But presuming that the codes were read correctly, this is certainly not the case :!: :wink:

I would check out all earth points (and if necessary add extra temp. earths) where you're not 100% sure and also check out the ECU relay in the fuse box under the bonnet in a black box, on the drivers side next to the battery :!:
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Ford Transit 120 TDI EPIC Automatic. 0-60 in a leisurely and smooth 12.7 seconds and 1/4 mile in 19.1 seconds. Now where's all these faster? manual Di s?
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Smooth Hound » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:58 pm

:? am i glad my vans not gt this epic shite :oops: :roll:
'94 L Reg 2.5Di LWB high top
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Re: 2000 LWB 190 Problems

Postby Robbo64 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:05 pm

Hi, I just had a problem with my transit fuel cut off. going into limp mode too.
I pull the stop solenoid out and found that the rubber foot on the plunger was perished and split.
I can not loctae the plunger by itself and have had to purchase a new solenoid for 300 bucks.

Robbo putaruru New Zealand
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