Loss of power...

[Ron]

Thanks for that Gazza, very helpful.

I've now tried 4 places and nobody has any leak off rail pipe!! Is it hard to find, or am I asking for the wrong thing?

[gazza]

shouldnt be difficult to get hold of, most smallish vehicles use flexible leak off pipe rather than fixed pipes like you find on hgv or marine applications, any motor factors in your area should stock it, do you know of any garages that use an independent motor factor? they might be able to help point you in the right direction. if you are in northants, beds or bucks try bedford battery ltd they are very good. if memory serves they call it cav (as in lucas) pipe / hose

good luck

Gaz

[100ps_drw_hicube]

ordinary rubber fuel hose works just make sure it is safe for fuel the heat of engine dont seem to affect it as we had our blue hicube replaced with this as it was all we could get at the time

[Nighthawk]

All the 99s I've seen recently already have the leak off pipes swapped round...... does that mean the dealers do it as part of the service at some stage? Or did certain ones come from the factory like that?


Rover.

Yes, this was a very common problem in the late 90's and was sbject to a Technical service bulletin. It affected both 70 and 76 ps vehicles but was none left the production line like that.

When I was doing then I used to have a constant burn on my forearm where you had to lean against the hot inlet manifold. from memory you got paid 0.4hrs for the 76ps and 0.6 for the 70ps


There is a FINIS code for the pipe from ford parts but it was around 20 quid for a meter of pipe. Any of the local diesel speialists will seel it to you much cheaper.

[Ron]

Update:

I sourced some pipe (from Halfords in the end!) and carried out the mod. no problems. I think the hardest part was taking off the clip where it joined the tank return. Needless to say, after getting my cutters on the clip, it was in no fit state to go back on. The new pipe feels very tight without the clip though.

I've routed it under the manifold and used a ti-wrap to secure it in place forming an upside down 'U'. Taken it for a test drive, and all seems fine. I'll drive it for a few more days and then post an update.


Just a final thanks to everybody who helped with this problem. I'm very greatful indeed for all the help. An absolutely fantastic forum!

[stevew]

Make sure you secure that fuel pipe properly.
It's quite hard to set fire to diesel but if it goes you can kiss goodbye to your van! I'm sure that won't happen!
Steve

[Nighthawk]

Glad you've sorted it

there isn't really much need for a clip on that pipe as it has no pressure to speak off, but do make sure it's pushed all the way up the metal junction.


Did you give it a decent run after you did it, that purges the air from the pipe.

[100ps_drw_hicube]

Glad you've sorted it

there isn't really much need for a clip on that pipe as it has no pressure to speak off, but do make sure it's pushed all the way up the metal junction.


Did you give it a decent run after you did it, that purges the air from the pipe.

so is there meant to be fuel running thru it when the van is running as mine is and its at a high pressure

[gazza]

shouldnt be, leak of is low pressure side of injectors, thats why the pipes from pump to injector are steel, i cant rember off hand what pressures injector pumps are capable of but is a huge amount, which is why you should be carefull purging air from the injectors as it can rupture your skin especialy if you have a cut on your hand, the leak off however runs at nowhere near the same pressure, hence flexi pipes rather than steel. steel leak offs tend to be used in HGV agricultural and marine applications where the shear size of engine components then makes it a more viable option to fit steel components that and expected service length of the engine. it can be a good idea to replace your entire leak off system from the injectors to tank return on high milage vehicles as it does tend to perish with age.

[Ron]

Here's an update:

It looks like the fix was successful! The loss of power (and the firing on three tractor noise) that was occuring daily hasn't reared its head; until yesterday!

Took a trip to Essex from Birmingham to see relatives and pick up some racking. The Transit quite easily goes to eighty MPH on the motorway, but I kept it at a steady 70 all the way down with no problems. On the way back however, just 20 oir so miles from Birmingham, I noticed there was a power loss at the top end, and hitting hills meant I slowed right down as there was just no power. I carried on however, and when I eventually pulled off the motorway up the sliproad, I noticed it was doing the same tractor noise and firing on three as it had been doing a couple of weeks previously.

I kept going doing the 3 miles or so drive home from the junction, and after about 2 miles or so, the Transit just cured itself and started firing correctly! I hadn't done anything to cure this, it just happened!

Has anybody any ideas what might have happened? It fired on three for 20 or so miles on the motorway (after a long 130 miles trouble free motorway drivng up to that point) and then cured itself after a couple of miles on 'normal' roads. Another factor is that the diesel was obviously low at this point although not low enough for the fuel light to have come on...

Thanks again.

[rover]

Well the filters etc shouldnt be clogged (unless you have had some bad diesel), it might be worth putting some injector cleaner in the tank and taking it for a run..

Was it doing any smoking at all? (doubt it but thought id ask).


Rover.

[Ron]

Was it doing any smoking at all? (doubt it but thought id ask).

Nope, no smoking.

The strange thing is that I heard a slight engine noise change, and noticed the lack of power, but didn't think it would be the same thing. It wasn't until I pulled up to a stop at an island after coming off the motorway did I recognise the 'chugging' and lack of power wehn I pulled off. I'll try some injector cleaner (recommendations?) today when I fill up again...

Thanks.

[Nighthawk]

would you mind posting a picture of how you've piped it up?

There is a change in engine note for two reasons with air ingress concerns, A. the pumps advance system gets upset by the lack of fuel pressure B. the fuel arrives at the combustion chamber at the wrong time.


Re the leak off pressures, they are low pressure, but do have a significant flow rate on both N/A and T/C engines. Injector pressures are around 160 to 180 bar on the old Transits which is enough to kill you!
TDCi injection pressures are much higher at approx 1600bar at full tilt

[Ron]

would you mind posting a picture of how you've piped it up?

Sure thing. No problem. Anyhting to get it sorted...

I drove the van around town all day today with no problems at all. Seems strange to have come on and then off without me doing anything.

[Ron]

Ok, here are some photo's of my leak off pipe change over...









Hope these help,

Cheers.