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Egr valve

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Re: Egr valve

Postby Jim Archer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:56 pm

Ran mine for a bit with the EGR pipe blanked and the flap still connected, and whilst it runs and starts just fine it did have a nasty habit of emptying the sump on a long high speed on/off the throttle type journey. Thankfully I thought to check the oil for once :D

If you remove the flap from the spindle it does seem to be quieter than if you tie it open. This is what I've done now and it does improve the low rev, small throttle opening drivability.

Yes, it is a bit noisier, but after owning a Lucas CAV pumped model with the airfilter atop the engine, it's not so bad :lol:

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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:16 pm

trigger wrote:It would not aid coldstarting cos when the engine is cold there are no hot gases to introduce back into inlet

are you sure?compress air and fuel to its flashpoint four times each revolution doesnt produce hot gas??im sure it does lol.
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Re: Egr valve

Postby Jim Archer » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:48 am

Indeed, but only after it's fired up mind :wink:

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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:52 pm

Jim Archer wrote:Indeed, but only after it's fired up mind :wink:

Jim


really?hmn




Abstract Experiments on the effects of external and internal exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) on combustion and emission performance during a cold start process were investigated in a DI diesel engine. Combustion was improved during the initial ignition cycles by introducing internal or external EGR. The addition of an appropriate amount of internal or external EGR can promote the combustion stability significantly.

now if your van is well serviced and doesnt require rebore/rings and aint overfueling , no reason to remove or alter egr on these transit 2.5 d.i...in the case of a petrol engine car then things are different as a carboned/sticky egr causes too many starting and running problems.

this is all fact folks...to the previous reply saying theres no hot gas till vans fired well im afraid i am led to believe otherwise .each compression stroke generates heat,that is rapidly exhausted and sent through egr ...all this happens on one flick of the key.

rant over lol. :D
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Re: Egr valve

Postby MinorMatt » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:20 pm

you keep believing that...

trust me there is very little heat produced just turning over... undo the egr and stick your finger down the hole :shock: while someone turns over a non firing Di engine...
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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:49 pm

MinorMatt wrote:you keep believing that...

trust me there is very little heat produced just turning over... undo the egr and stick your finger down the hole :shock: while someone turns over a non firing Di engine...



lol,sorry i use thermometers for measuring heat ,not fingers....how much heat does it take to make the difference between starting and non starting at sub zero.answer is ..............very little.i could go into it a lot more...but i can see a lot of people dont understand what they are doing with there vehicles.

all it does is give the driver the perception that because of the induction roar that he has more power.even at half throttle the flap is practically well open.all removing the flap does is stops gases back into inlet .now if youve got an engine thats got issues,excess wear etc ,i d leave leave it.but maybe i and nearly every automotive design engineer in the world are wrong... :?:
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Re: Egr valve

Postby trigger » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:09 pm

Believe me there is more power and smoother throttle response since doing the EGR mod, just shows how much use it was NOT
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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:27 pm

trigger wrote:Believe me there is more power and smoother throttle response since doing the EGR mod, just shows how much use it was NOT



ok then,im not arguing with people...wheres the extra power come from?im interested in your theory.you seem to know enough about it im sure you can explain,afterall its a web community and the information could help other people.


unless your van is on its last legs and is burning more engine oil than fuel and chucking it to the inlet through egr?
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Re: Egr valve

Postby fastmower » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:31 pm

I can't see that EGR systems were introduced in order to aid cold starting, and as Matt pointed out, there is very little heat coming out the exhaust of a Di that is only in the process of starting rather than having been started.

Also - it's all very well going on about "people not understanding what they're doing with their vehicles" etc - but then again, how many engineers would think a good thing to do to a machine requiring air to complete a combustion process, would be to feed it with oxygen depleted air that had already been used for combustion?? Manufacturers also go to some trouble to feed an engine with the coolest air possible - then introduce hot gas via the EGR??

Diesel engines have been starting without the aid of EGR systems and glow plugs for decades - perhaps you're suggesting that the engineers who designed all those got it wrong and didn't understand what they were doing either?

I'm not sure if the EGR mod will improve power in it's own - though I would suggest that long term it could help prevent a decrease in power due to less build up of cack restricting the inlet manifold flow. Most people on here I'm guessing have done the EGR mod in conjunction with turning up the mid range fuelling - which does lead to an immediate increase in power.

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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:51 pm

but then again, how many engineers would think a good thing to do to a machine requiring air to complete a combustion process, would be to feed it with oxygen depleted air that had already been used for combustion?? Manufacturers also go to some trouble to feed an engine with the coolest air possible - then introduce hot gas via the EGR??


lol,ok...ive heard it all....who designs engines requiring air to complete combustion...erm let me think everyone lol.and it is only to reduce emissions in the first instance,but can aid cold start and warm up....and in this vans case at closed/low throttle opening which isnt full throttle is it.

now your van with it removed is no better off than mine intact at say half to full throttle is it,so wheres the power come from?it doesnt.yours will be louder ,thats it. i do agree in the long term it may carbon up inlet,but neglegable...

i bet theres plenty on here with vauxhall cars and that have experienced problems with egr...totally different.
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Re: Egr valve

Postby trigger » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:10 pm

kinty wrote:i bet theres plenty on here with vauxhall cars and that have experienced problems with egr...totally different.

I doubt it, we are Ford fans that's why we drive Transits :D
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Re: Egr valve

Postby fastmower » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:14 pm

The extra power comes from turning up the mid range fuelling - which I believe is what I said already. This is what probably the majority of people on here who have done the EGR mod have done at the same time.

Yes my van will be a bit louder due to intake roar with the flap tied open - I can live with that and you soon don't even notice it's any different.

I don't know how many Transit intake manifolds you've been inside, but a lot of them are seriously clagged up due to the EGR. As mine now only has fresh clean air from the air filter going through it, it's not clagged up at all.

EGR blanking is a very popular move on many vehicles not just Transits - you'll find loads of people advising it on all sorts of forums - Pajero and Hilux to name but two. Almost all of them have reported immediately much less visible smoke from the exhaust with the EGR removed or blanked than with it working.

Engines and people are not that much different - try feeding a portion of your exhaust back into the cab and see how well you perform after a while! Clean, cool fresh air is what they want to do their thing - feeding them their own exhaust is just a bad idea if you ask me.

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Re: Egr valve

Postby kinty » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:35 pm

lol no thanks ,i aint inhaling my exhaust fumes...had a korma lastnight...,look ive done this egr thing to death,if you lads are happy,cool. :D
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Re: Egr valve

Postby Steve B » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:37 am

I think this discussion has been very informative, speaking as somebody that has completed the egr and pump mod, its good to see other peoples views on this subject and I must say that I do sway to the idea of having clean air and a cleaner burn in my engine, my results since doing the mods have improved the vans performance, ok, the extra mid range power is down to the pump being turned up, BUT, before I did the egr mod my van would not tick over on cold startup without extra revs, when I did the egr mod it happily started and without any white smoke, all is well with my tranny since the mods, Steve, well, apart from the rust!
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Re: Egr valve

Postby fastmower » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:42 am

Steve - you are by no means the only person who has been pleased with the results of disabling the EGR valve. I know as far as kinty is concerned, we're all just imagining it all, but he does seem to be in something of a minority!

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