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Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (ROG)

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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:38 pm

I bought a ride on lawnmower. It is eight inches too long with the grassbox off to fit on the transit sideways, I was gonna weld up some ramps for it. Long ones, as you could imagine, but discovered the sad news that it doesn't fit. If it goes on long ways, I have no room for grass cuttings.

So I'm forced to get a trailer to carry it.

I figured that since I will be travelling less than 50k from base and I'm carrying tools for my own business use and not for 'Hire or Reward', the over 3.5T plated Train Weight or MAM, wouldn't mean I need a tacho or an operators licence.

However, if I carry grass cuttings to dispose of, which I charge indirectly into my costs, (My time + fuel + tipping fee) is this waste, produced in the course of my actions, taken as for 'Hire and Reward'...? Another government department, he EA don't class it as such unless I am specifically picking it up as someone else's waste for reward, although I have a Waste Carriers anyway.

I may just be able to wing it presently, as my grey import tipper has a plated weight of 2900kg, so with a 600kg trailer, down rated from 750kg plated trailer I will be on 3500kg Train Weight exactly.

But FFS, this Transit isn't going to last forever and I need to go back to my 3.5T GVW one, in which case I will be well above 3.5T.

What the verdict? I've contacted VOSA, they have no idea and have not got back to me via email, although I'm pretty sure the VOSA staff on the nearest roundabout who will be stopping me, will have a clearer idea of the law.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:59 pm

TACHO EXEMPTIONS:

Found a couple of TACHO exemptions, the first horticultural one may be dubious as I think they are referring to growers, although technically, by mowing lawns, I am participating in horticultural undertakings, but the second is spot on for me, trailer it is then:

'Vehicles used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry or fishery undertakings carrying goods within 50km radius of the vehicle's usual base'.

'Vehicles with a maximum permissible weight of not more than 7.5 tonnes carrying material or equipment for the driver's use in the course of his work within a 50km radius of the vehicle's usual base, where driving the vehicle is not the driver's main activity.'
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:00 pm

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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:00 am

You have got all right info so well done

Grass cuttings .... can you put them in the van and drop the trailer to take them to the disposal place?
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:57 pm

Thanks for the reply ROG

Not really it would be nicked fairly rapidly and I'm lucky of I can get to the green waste tip by 5pm the same day.

In reality I think I'II be returning to base with a tarped load of cuttings and the trailer + mower at rush hour, to dump unhitched the following morning.

Also would prefer a 2000kg MAM plant/goods type twin axle trailer as they are safer and easier to reverse, but again this would bring me up to 4900kg Train presently or 5500kg. I think these types of trailers minimum downrated MAM GVW is 1500kg.

Those little 750kg single axle trailers bounce and skip around behind a Transit and if a tyre goes, I've had it.

Guess the issue all hinges on whether disposing of green waste in the course of my job, constitutes 'Hire and Reward' or not or whether I'm still exempt, working locally.

No intention of hauling a mini digger anymore, get them delivered and light, empty tippers just aren't suitable for towing them I reckon and obviously, if I carry materials in the trailer I most probably will need a tacho.

So all comes down to using it solely for the above and a 8 inch oversize mower.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Obviously my actual Train weight with grass on the tipper and the mower on the trailer is only going to be around 2900kg max.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:23 pm

No point in down plating a trailer when whatever you do takes it over 3500 total plated MAM

It will still be under 7500 combined MAM so the 50km rule exemption will still apply and as long as the trailer is not more than 1020 kg the operator exemption will apply

You take the mower to various sites and use it to do the job with most of the shift spent mowing rather than driving

The waste is best done as you say - using van only early to tip then hitching trailer later
I doubt the authorities would be interested in the waste bit but best not to chance it with the trailer
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm

~Carrying materials for the job is exempt - carrying delivery/collection goods is another matter
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Is that 1020kg MAM for the trailer actual or plated?
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:21 pm

Sorry just saw this, it's under 1020kg unladen weight for the licence exemption.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ginsambo » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:23 pm

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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Rosso » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:18 pm

Guys sorry if this is already covered but just to keep me correct can you clarify licence necessary to drive a Transit T350? The transit has plated MAM 5500kg so is accompanied sometimes by 2000kg plated braked ifor williams .

I have '93 licence so A B BE B1 C1 C1E entitlement and legally drive vehicle on its own and with trailer

Two employees only have B entitlement, but this is defined as vehicle with MAM not exceeding 3500kg .. so on its own would the employees be okay to drive the transit, or could a pedantic police cuntstuble cite the TRANSIT's plated MAM and charge for no licence?

Thanks
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ake » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:18 am

Rosso wrote:Guys sorry if this is already covered but just to keep me correct can you clarify licence necessary to drive a Transit T350? The transit has plated MAM 5500kg so is accompanied sometimes by 2000kg plated braked ifor williams .

I have '93 licence so A B BE B1 C1 C1E entitlement and legally drive vehicle on its own and with trailer

Two employees only have B entitlement, but this is defined as vehicle with MAM not exceeding 3500kg .. so on its own would the employees be okay to drive the transit, or could a pedantic police cuntstuble cite the TRANSIT's plated MAM and charge for no licence?

Thanks

They can drive the Transit, as long as the trailer isn't attached ;)
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