Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (ROG)

[(ROG)]

if you are intending to tow a trailer plated at (if no plate then load rating on tyres) 1300kgs with a van that has a gross train weight of 3500kgs on a 'B' licence then the empty van must not weigh LESS than 1300kgs unladen (kerb weight) and the van when loaded must not weigh more than 2200kgs
2200 + 1300 = 3500

If towing on a B+E licence then different rules apply

Firstly find out what licence category the towing vehicle is under
Does the driver have the licence category and are there any restriction codes - find out what they mean
Secondly find out what the maximum weights are for the towing vehicle and the trailer
Thirdly find out what the maximum combined or gross weight is for both
Now look at the specific rules for what you intend to do

VOSA are the experts in weights - Police are the experts in licences - It's when the two get mixed up that the problems occur

[miniandi]

to confuse matters further with regards to trailers,towing etc etc

-at present you do not need to take a trailer test to tow a caravan,regardless of weight,braked axles etc etc as at present a caravan is not classified as a trailer but mobile home.
-you need a trailer test to tow any trailer over 750kgs in weight or if the trailer has the capacity to carry more than 750kgs or any combination if the trailer has one or more braked axles.
-so if you have a plant trailer weighing 650kgs but the trailer is plated to 2500kgs then if you do not have a trailer test then you cannot tow this trailer regardless of the fact the trailer weights under 750kg because it has the capability of carrying loads inc, its own weight upto 2500kgs.
-i own a timberwolf chipper weighing 730kgs (dry weight-this is the weight with no fuel oil,coolant in the machine) but it weighs 745kgs wet weight(fuelled up)
i do not have a trailer license yet so im just legally in the 750kgs cut off bracket by just 5kgs!!!!
my brother however has his license and can tow upto 3500kg trailers,but i can still legally tow the 28ft long twin axlled braked caravan weighing 1175kgs with no trailer license??? its bloody ridiculous!!

[(ROG)]

to confuse matters further with regards to trailers,towing etc etc

-at present you do not need to take a trailer test to tow a caravan,regardless of weight,braked axles etc etc as at present a caravan is not classified as a trailer but mobile home.
-you need a trailer test to tow any trailer over 750kgs in weight or if the trailer has the capacity to carry more than 750kgs or any combination if the trailer has one or more braked axles.
-so if you have a plant trailer weighing 650kgs but the trailer is plated to 2500kgs then if you do not have a trailer test then you cannot tow this trailer regardless of the fact the trailer weights under 750kg because it has the capability of carrying loads inc, its own weight upto 2500kgs.
-i own a timberwolf chipper weighing 730kgs (dry weight-this is the weight with no fuel oil,coolant in the machine) but it weighs 745kgs wet weight(fuelled up)
i do not have a trailer license yet so im just legally in the 750kgs cut off bracket by just 5kgs!!!!
my brother however has his license and can tow upto 3500kg trailers,but i can still legally tow the 28ft long twin axlled braked caravan weighing 1175kgs with no trailer license??? its bloody ridiculous!!

Much of that info is not correct - where did you get that load of tosh?

I have managed to find a simple way of determining whether a driver can tow something on a B only licence -

To tow over 750 kgs with a B licence you need to say NO to the following:-

Is the plated MAM of the trailer more than the UNLADEN/KERB/EMPTY weight of the towing vehicle?

Does the GVW of the towing vehicle plus the plated MAM of the trailer add up to more than 3500 kgs?

Is the ACTUAL weight of the empty trailer and its load more than the listed towing capacity?

[miniandi]

sorry i forgot to mention that this apparently applies to anyone who has passed their test since 01/01/97.the older generation need not apply as they have trailer towing rights "grandfather rights" until thier license expires
basically since im 24 i legally cannot tow anything over the gross weight 750kgs,or any trailer that weighs more than this ,or has the capacity to carry loads over 750kgs,ie plated trailers greater than 750kgs.until i have passed the aditional trailer test.

i was informed this on a roadside stop by the vosa possy one day when i had the chipper on the back,they looked at the plate on the chipper but still proceeded to weigh it!!! i was legal and within my legal limit.
I was told to check out this information on the link below,
but just been on the site and a page is no longer available to veiw.The page in question gave info of entitlements that i could drive,also since i went on this site last time they have added this new category MAM? that is new to me.
apologies if my above info is incorrect but seems things have been altering of late at a record pace.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022564

ps rog u seem the man in the know so if im confuzzled by as to what i can tow may i ask u?

[(ROG)]

You certainly can ask me because I do know and it applies to ALL those without a B+E category on their licence

MAM = Maximum Authorised Mass = max weight the trailer can be when fully loaded

GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight = max weight the vehicle can be when fully loaded

MAM + GVW are the same for all intent and purposes

I will repaeat what I said earlier so that you can see how it all works

I have managed to find a simple way of determining whether a driver can tow something on a B only licence -

To tow over 750 kgs with a B licence you need to say NO to the following:-

Is the plated MAM of the trailer more than the UNLADEN/KERB/EMPTY weight of the towing vehicle?

Does the GVW of the towing vehicle plus the plated MAM of the trailer add up to more than 3500 kgs?

Is the ACTUAL weight of the empty trailer and its load more than the listed towing capacity?

===========================================================================================


Example of legally towing over 750 kgs with a B licence - made up figures but not that far from what can be found....

Towing vehicle -
Unladen/empty/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2000
Towing capacity = 1800

Trailer -
Unladen/empty = 800
MAM = 1500 (originally a 2000 MAM but downplated by manufacturer so it conforms to B licence towing)

Load trailer with 700 max

Reasons it is legal for towing on a B licence -
The 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than the 1500 unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
The 2000 GVW of the towing vehicle plus the 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than 3500
The towing capacity/actual weight being towed does not exceed 1800


Here is a real example - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/s ... stcount=36

[(ROG)]

sorry i forgot to mention that this apparently applies to anyone who has passed their test since 01/01/97.the older generation need not apply as they have trailer towing rights "grandfather rights" until thier license expires
basically since im 24 i legally cannot tow anything over the gross weight 750kgs,or any trailer that weighs more than this ,or has the capacity to carry loads over 750kgs,ie plated trailers greater than 750kgs.until i have passed the aditional trailer test.

i was informed this on a roadside stop by the vosa possy one day when i had the chipper on the back,they looked at the plate on the chipper but still proceeded to weigh it!!! i was legal and within my legal limit.
I was told to check out this information on the link below,
but just been on the site and a page is no longer available to veiw.The page in question gave info of entitlements that i could drive,also since i went on this site last time they have added this new category MAM? that is new to me.
apologies if my above info is incorrect but seems things have been altering of late at a record pace.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022564

ps rog u seem the man in the know so if im confuzzled by as to what i can tow may i ask u?

VOSA were right in saying you were legal but did not go into explanation correctly - not surprising as they do not deal with licence issues

That info has been on there for many many years but it is not a good explanation

[(ROG)]

This is the link you missed - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... G_10013073

[(ROG)]

Tell me what vehicle you have and what is listed on the vehicle, the handbook or on the V5 in regard to weights

I need GVW plus unladen/kerb/empty weight and towing capacity OR GTW (Gross Train Weight)
those weights will be in KGs

[miniandi]

thanks for the re-explanation rog.
Between the various websites and info available plus my dads imput(he owns a mobile site unit buisness trailered toilets,offices etc) ive got rather confused/lost!!!
ive got a mk6 transit tipper c/cab on an 06 plate.
gvw IS 3500KG,
Unladen weight is 1650kg
maximum load it can carry 1850kg
so presumably the last weight on the plate 5550kg is gross train weight?
my chipper weighs in at 730kg
my smaller trailer is plated 750kg total so presume this is the maximum it can weigh with load inc,its own weight?
my larger trailer is an ifor plant trailer,which weighs 790kg empty but is plated 2500kg- i presumably cannot tow this on my car license alone behind the transit?

help!
hopfully taking trailer test in new year but would love to have everything clarified.

[(ROG)]

[quote="miniandi"]thanks for the re-explanation rog.
Between the various websites and info available plus my dads imput(he owns a mobile site unit buisness trailered toilets,offices etc) ive got rather confused/lost!!!
ive got a mk6 transit tipper c/cab on an 06 plate.
gvw IS 3500KG,
Unladen weight is 1650kg
maximum load it can carry 1850kg
so presumably the last weight on the plate 5550kg is gross train weight? = YES
my chipper weighs in at 730kg
my smaller trailer is plated 750kg total so presume this is the maximum it can weigh with load inc,its own weight? = YES
my larger trailer is an ifor plant trailer,which weighs 790kg empty but is plated 2500kg- i presumably cannot tow this on my car license alone behind the transit? = CORRECT
[/quote]
GVW = 3500 - that is the important weight in this case on a B licence because with that weight as GVW you can only tow 750 kgs max MAM

5550 is the GTW - spot on

You seem to have now got the jist of what can and connot be done in regards to towing with a B licence

The sooner you pass the B+E test the better as that will give you more options for life and is only a one time financial outlay

[miniandi]

thats brill rog,thanks muchly :D

hoping get trailer test passed jan or asap!!

many thanks for the help :D

[125neil]

"Unladen weight is 1650kg
maximum load it can carry 1850kg "

Mate, did you sort your tyre problem out ? As I said last week are you sure your not overloaded, if you put 1850 kgs on a tipper you are probably 500 kgs overloaded. 15% overload spells trouble if pulled by VOSA.

[miniandi]

hi mate,

how am i 500kgs overloaded?
presumably unladen weight is calculated a dry weight-without fuel etc.so admittedly i may be a few kgs overweight when fuel is in the tank but how can i be half a tonne over weight all the time?
the chassis plate is presumably the maximum permissable load we can carry ie: 1850kgs?,we once weighed a full vanload of woodchip (the densest weight we carry) and that tared off at around1600kgs so we are still under the maximum permissable load surely?
again confused,plus we rarely weigh our loads,that one time was an exception as a chap was buying woodchip £/tonne,as a rule of thumb we watch the springs!! admittedly its not the most accurate weight determination but it helps.lol

[(ROG)]

Simple way to resolve the weight issue
Load it - take it to a weighbridge - weigh front axle (leave back axle off the bridge) - weigh both axles (fully on bridge) - weigh rear axle (leave front axle off bridge)

The single front and back axle weights added together should be the same as the all axle weight

Now look at the axle and GVW plated weights - are they within all those limits?

[125neil]

Mini,if your tipper is a one stop Ford tipper these weigh about 2300kgs unladen, therefore you can carry 1200kgs, maximum permissable load of 1850 kgs is before any tipper body is put on the chassis. With you and your mate and your fuel /tools etc all up, I'll be surprised if you dont go overloaded with just 1 tonne in the tipper. Go on the Ford website and look it it up they dont carry anything, the lads on here with the car transporters all have to watch what we carry. You'll be alright up to 5% over but after that its a fine.
Rog, sorry to go off course with this thread.