Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (ROG)

[125neil]

I should add the Ranger has got to be capable of being used in 4 wheel drive to be exempt from the O licence, also I'm not sure about the supercab being exempt, there is something about the measurement from the back of the drivers seat to the back window having to be a minimum length, or something like that.

[knighty1981]

what if... you're in your van, with your own trailer on the back.... but you're doing a favour for a mate by moving some of his work stuff ?
(not getting paid etc..)

or will it be up to whoever pulls you at the time ?

it looks to me like they leave this stuff vague on purpose, so it's hard to defend yourself in court if you disagree ?

[Stroppymonkey]

I'm solving all the hassle and selling the ranger AND the 3.5t trailer..

Daft that towing is starting to incur such pedantic regulation with so many grey areas... Yet any numpty can pass a test and drive anything for ever, as stupidly as they like as long as they are lucky and don't get caught..

[(ROG)]

I'm solving all the hassle and selling the ranger AND the 3.5t trailer..

Daft that towing is starting to incur such pedantic regulation with so many grey areas... Yet any numpty can pass a test and drive anything for ever, as stupidly as they like as long as they are lucky and don't get caught..

There are no grey areas - the rules are clear

Licence requirements
Private or commercial = commercial means making or intending to make a profit in relation to a business
If commercial look at exemptions

[Stroppymonkey]

I disagree..

For a lot of people who use vehicles and trailers for both work and leisure there are some grey areas.
If I'm using my sign written 4x4 to tow a mini digger to site.. Yes fine that is commercial.

On the weekend I might drive 50 miles to a friends house to collect a large picnic bench and while I'm there take away some broken concrete slabs for recycling in my drive. (Real example)
So is Is this private or commercial?

I think it's definitely a grey area!

[(ROG)]

I disagree..

For a lot of people who use vehicles and trailers for both work and leisure there are some grey areas.
If I'm using my sign written 4x4 to tow a mini digger to site.. Yes fine that is commercial.

On the weekend I might drive 50 miles to a friends house to collect a large picnic bench and while I'm there take away some broken concrete slabs for recycling in my drive. (Real example)
So is Is this private or commercial?

I think it's definitely a grey area!

If the picnic bench and slabs are for non commercial purposes then its not under regs = easy = no grey area

[(ROG)]

The fact that sign writing is on the vehicle or trailer makes no difference - think about hire companies that have their logo etc on their vehicles when hired out for private use = out of scope for regs

[Stroppymonkey]

Well.. I still reckon we need a towing app.

Loads of tick boxes yes/no and some GVW and Train weight details and it could tell you that you do/don't need B+E/o-licence/tacho etc etc

It will happen..

[MK7 user]

It is RECOMMENDED by manufacturers that the trailer does not exceed the weight of the towing vehicle at any time for safety purposes - this is not written in LAW but may lead to a safety prosecution if not followed

Hi (ROG)....does the following example sound like an infringement waiting to happen?

The new model Transit Mk8 range includes a heavy duty variant with the same gross vehicle mass as the earlier models but with higher plated axle loadings & a higher gross train mass.

Example....350HD L4.

3500kg GVM

7,000kg GTM

3,500kg Manufacturers Permissible Maximum Towable Mass.

Scenario:-

You load a trailer with a plated MAM of 3,500kg with an indivisible load of 3,500kg. You load the towing vehicle to the GVM of 3,500kg including fuel & driver. Providing that no plated axle loadings have been exceeded (and excluding tacho & o-licence regulations for the purpose of simplification) the combination can be driven by a B+E licence holder without contravention of either licence limitations or plated masses.

At some point in your journey the fuel gauge hits halfway....taking the mass of road fuel at 0.832kg/ltr, the towing vehicle will be 33.28 kg lighter resulting in a towing vehicle of 3,466.28kg towing a trailer of 3,500kg.

What's the likelihood of a Vosa or a Traffic Officers interpretation that the the combination is being used "otherwise in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations"???

[(ROG)]

Any subjective recommendation such as exceeding the towing capacity can only be judged in a court and then only if the combination is deemed unsafe

[Stroppymonkey]

I'm back again!

New scenario.
I'm using (as previously detailed) a T280 with a GTW of 3500 to tow around a small trailer (plated at 1400kg MAM) to transport empty tanks.
I'm close to my 3500kg GTW but not over. I have a post 97 licence but have added B+E

Question...

Can my apprentice (passed test 2012) do the same? Without B+E?

Ie drive around with trailer as long as below GTW of 3500kg?

I've got a transit 330 now (GTW 5500kg) now and about to fit a towbar in order to tow the same trailer (mam 1400). Will i need a tacho?

Will my apprentice be able to tow with it ?

Sorry that's 3 questions.

I'm assuming it's
Yes
Yes
No
In that order...

Thanks!

[(ROG)]

I'm back again!

New scenario.
I'm using (as previously detailed) a T280 with a GTW of 3500 to tow around a small trailer (plated at 1400kg MAM) to transport empty tanks.
I'm close to my 3500kg GTW but not over. I have a post 97 licence but have added B+E

Question...

Can my apprentice (passed test 2012) do the same? Without B+E?

Ie drive around with trailer as long as below GTW of 3500kg?

I've got a transit 330 now (GTW 5500kg) now and about to fit a towbar in order to tow the same trailer (mam 1400). Will i need a tacho?

Will my apprentice be able to tow with it ?

Sorry that's 3 questions.

I'm assuming it's
Yes
Yes
No
In that order...

Thanks!

In an earlier post I said that with a GTW of 3500 it would be exempt tacho regs - I WAS WRONG as a tacho exemption must apply to any combination where 3500 plated MAM total is exceeded - the O licence exemption does apply for the 3500 GTW limit
Dunno what I was thinking that day !!

A 2800 GVW Towing a trailer plated at 1400 is under tacho regs if for commercial use unless a tacho exemption applies - the driver would need a B+E for that
Same goes for a 3500 GVW towing a 1400 MAM trailer

[Stroppymonkey]

So I need a tacho? Or an o-licence or both?

Can apprentice tow smaller trailer (750kg unbraked) without B+E?

You might say all this is black and white... I'm not so sure!

According to DVlA he can tow upto GTW of 3500 without B+E

[Stroppymonkey]

Well I seem to not need Tachos as I don't operate over 33miles from base.

Do I need an O-Licence or not ?


This site says that any trailers lighter than 1025unladen are not to be taken into account??
http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/small_busi ... /7831.html

[(ROG)]

So I need a tacho? Or an o-licence or both?

Can apprentice tow smaller trailer (750kg unbraked) without B+E?

You might say all this is black and white... I'm not so sure!

According to DVlA he can tow upto GTW of 3500 without B+E

DVLA/LAW is that he can tow up to 3500 TOTAL PLATED MAM not GTW which is actual weight

With the T280 apprentice can tow 750 kg plated MAM trailer without B+E but if T280 is 2800 GVW with trailer plated MAM at 750 then that totals 3550 so requires tacho unless under an exemption

O licence NOT needed for T280 if GTW is plated at 3500

It is B&W but some of the stuff on the internet by Gov is incomplete