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Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (ROG)

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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Stroppymonkey » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:04 pm

And what IS the unlade weight of a van? It's not on the data plate... Where would i find that? Does all my racking and lining count as part of the unlade van?

Can my lad tow with a tramsit 280 loaded near to max along with a trailer weighing 500kg (MAM 1500kg) yes/no

If no then if I get trailer replated to 700kg I assume it's YES?

Next question. Can trailer data plates be changed from driver to driver?

I need him to tow but it's only ever empty tanks, not worth the cost of B+E

Sigh....
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Altransit » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:14 pm

Stroppymonkey wrote:And what IS the unlade weight of a van? It's not on the data plate... Where would i find that? You need to put it on a weighbridge but reckon on at least 1800kg
Does all my racking and lining count as part of the unladen van? Yes, anything that stays in the van is counted

Can my lad tow with a tramsit 280 loaded near to max along with a trailer weighing 500kg (MAM 1500kg) yes/no No

If no then if I get trailer replated to 700kg I assume it's YES? Yes

Next question. Can trailer data plates be changed from driver to driver? No

I need him to tow but it's only ever empty tanks, not worth the cost of B+E

Sigh....
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Stroppymonkey » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:47 pm

Thanks.

So the Gov.uk site is Incorrect and misleading.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:08 am

Stroppymonkey wrote:Rog.

Thankyou for your responses.

So it's all very clear as you don't believe the governments own website! Sounds about right :-(


So if I want my lad to use a trailer without a B+E I'm going to have to make sure my transit 280 (with its GTW of 3500kg) is never weighing more than 2750 kg and then I need to buy a new trailer with a MAM of 750kg or investigate getting it replated.

Correct?

Correct if the 750 plated MAM trailer is loaded to an actual weight of 750
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:09 am

Stroppymonkey wrote:Thanks.

So the Gov.uk site is Incorrect and misleading.

It is not written very well and often misses out the word MAM
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:24 am

Altransit wrote:Simply put, you cannot tow an empty, or partially loaded trailer which has a MAM greater than the max towing weight of the van, or makes the combination greater than 3500kg
That's regardless of how much weight it's actually carrying

You can legally tow a trailer where the plated MAM of the trailer is above the towing capacity for the vehicle and where the total GVW/MAMs exceed the plated GTW

Towing capacity and GTW refer to actual weights

GVW MAM refer to plated weights

Legal example
Vehicle
GVW 2000
Towing capacity 1800
GTW 3800

Trailer (1)
MAM 2500
Load trailer to max actual weight of 1800
B+E licence needed

Trailer (2)
MAM 1500
Load trailer to max actual weight of 1500
B only licence needed
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Stroppymonkey » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:15 pm

It's not so clear with load carrying vehicles.

Example.

Towing vehicle. transit 280

GVW 2800
GTW 3500
Towing capacity of 700kg correct?

But can tow trailer MAM of 1500kg with B+E as long as GTW below 3500kg

So can tow trailer LOADED to MAM of 1500kg if towing vehicle is unloaded (2000kg) and GTW below 3500kg and do this without B+E?

Think I'm getting this now. Basically the ACTUAL weight of any towing vehicle PLUS the MAM of the trailer MUST total below 3500 kg otherwise a B+E is required.
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Stroppymonkey » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:23 pm

Also.... I spoke to my local trailer Dealership today and he suggested I get the trailer replated to 700kg so apprentice can tow legally.....
But to just duct tape over the existing plates. Then if I need to tow more (with my b+e licence) to take the tape off and tape over the lower plate...

Seems legit??
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby ake » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:51 pm

Stroppymonkey wrote:Also.... I spoke to my local trailer Dealership today and he suggested I get the trailer replated to 700kg so apprentice can tow legally.....
But to just duct tape over the existing plates. Then if I need to tow more (with my b+e licence) to take the tape off and tape over the lower plate...

Seems legit??

The 700 kg includes the weight of the trailer, which makes it pretty pointless.
Cheaper getting the apprentice to take his trailer test
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Altransit » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:06 pm

ake wrote:
Stroppymonkey wrote:Also.... I spoke to my local trailer Dealership today and he suggested I get the trailer replated to 700kg so apprentice can tow legally.....
But to just duct tape over the existing plates. Then if I need to tow more (with my b+e licence) to take the tape off and tape over the lower plate...

Seems legit??

The 700 kg includes the weight of the trailer, which makes it pretty pointless.
Cheaper getting the apprentice to take his trailer test

True, but his apprentice is only going to tow large bulky items which have no real weight, so this would work for him :)
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:14 pm

Illegal to do what dealer said about the plate as the weight plate on a trailer under 3500 kg can only be legally down plated by the manufacturer

Driving licence is ok for B only with a 2800 GVW and a 750 kg plated MAM trailer BUT as it takes it over 3500 then tacho rules will kick in unless an exemption applies

Get a trailer with a max plated MAM of 700 kg or contact the manufacturer of that 750 trailer and get it down plated to 700

If the trailer weighs say 300 kg empty and is plated at 700 then it can be loaded with 400 kg
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:25 pm

Stroppymonkey wrote:It's not so clear with load carrying vehicles.

Example.

Towing vehicle. transit 280

GVW 2800
GTW 3500
Towing capacity of 700kg correct?

But can tow trailer MAM of 1500kg with B+E as long as GTW below 3500kg

So can tow trailer LOADED to MAM of 1500kg if towing vehicle is unloaded (2000kg) and GTW below 3500kg and do this without B+E?

Think I'm getting this now. Basically the ACTUAL weight of any towing vehicle PLUS the MAM of the trailer MUST total below 3500 kg otherwise a B+E is required.

Still not getting it .....
The GVW plated weight of the empty towing vehicle plus the plated MAM weight of the empty trailer must not total more than 3500 for B towing
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Altransit » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:30 pm

(ROG) wrote:Still not getting it .....
The GVW plated weight of the empty towing vehicle plus the plated MAM weight of the empty trailer must not total more than 3500 for B towing

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....................

I hadn't got that part either :oops: :oops:
So a 260 would be better than a 280 because you could tow a heavier trailer, by 200kg (They're both 3500kg GTW)
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby (ROG) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:42 pm

Altransit wrote:
(ROG) wrote:Still not getting it .....
The GVW plated weight of the empty towing vehicle plus the plated MAM weight of the empty trailer must not total more than 3500 for B towing

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....................

I hadn't got that part either :oops: :oops:
So a 260 would be better than a 280 because you could tow a heavier trailer, by 200kg (They're both 3500kg GTW)

For B towing = yes

GVW 2600 allows for a trailer plated at 900 for B licencing and to keep out of tacho regs
GVW 2800 allows for a trailer plated at 750 for B licencing but 700 to keep out of tacho regs

Neither would need O licence because the DVSA have recently stated that a vehicle with a GTW of no more than 3500 is exempt even if the plated weights total more than that

Its a shame that the licencing tacho and O licence laws are not all in unison with each other but hey ho that's law for you
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Re: Gross + train weight issues, licences & tachos Info by (

Postby Stroppymonkey » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:34 pm

I'm on the case with Tachos. Hopefully exempt as within 50 k radius.

So need to either down rate my existing trailer or buy another unbraked one.

So let me get this right...My transit fwd 330 with a GTW of 5500 is still okay to tow 750kg with b-licence or is it only 200kg?

(Ignoring o licences and Tachos for a minute)
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