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On going starting issues any help?

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On going starting issues any help?

Postby spencenpc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:26 pm

hi guys - i'm pulling my hair out over an on going starting problem i'm havig with my 09 mk7 transit. It sometimes just clicks when starting - all the dash lights flicker and it does not turn over. Literally 5 mins later it starts fine - no issues at all - i originally thought battery / starter motor but we have now changed the battery and still does it - although not straight away.

When i bought the van it was flat as a pancake - they had to jump start it but to be fair i figured when they have been standing for a while it might do that? Anyway - they put a new battery on and everything was fine for a while - then the battery started making a sort of squealing noise - very quiet and it was intermittent - took the van back and they did a battery test etc and could find nothing wrong. It turns out the battery was leaking and that was what the noise was (the leak from the battery was on the side furthest from the drivers door so could not be seen unless it was removed which we have just done when we put yet another battery in)
The clicking when starting has gradually been getting worse over the last couple of months and the battery (before we have just changed it) was still making the noises - as i'd ask them to check and they said it was fine i left changing it until it went into an auto-electricians last week. It was clearly knackered as acid had been running down the side and the battery itself was bulging at one side!! Just wondering if the knackered battery has caused something else to go wrong or the new one they sent is just not right? When i first put new one in it was fine - no clicking at all - fired up well - then next day a bit of sporadic clicking and gradually getting worse again - today it died completely - turned off the ignition for 30 secs or so - tried again and it crawled into life - i then drove just down the road - 1 min max - stopped - back to the van 30 mins later and it fired up without even a hesitation!! The reason we are still thinking battery is that when a jump pack or brand new battery is used there is never an issue - engines fires without any clicking from solenoids etc. I've had the other odd electrical gremlin and will list these as it may jog a memory / give a clue etc.

Auto wipers very occasionally come on without being on auto
remote locking has not worked for ages - then - since this latest battery has been changed it works every time?
External temperature reading is too high after the dreaded clicking has happened.
The clicking is always worse when cold outside

I'd read somewhere that this could be a drain or some kind of short somewhere? Has anyone else had these problems - i get that it 'could' be the alternator or starter but they are pretty expensive ways to narrow something down if it is something else.

Any help would be very gratefully received as its getting into guess work / working through changing everything territory and as we all know that can be expensive :-)

Thanks in advance for any tips
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby Altransit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:33 pm

Is the latest battery definitely OK, as it sounds like you've suffered a bit with dodgy ones :?: Do you definitely only have one battery, or is there another under the front of the seat :?:

Other common problem areas are:-
1/ the ignition switch,
2/ the glow plugs (shorting out), and
3/ faulty (or clogged up with DMF dust) starter motor
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1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby knobby1 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:32 pm

What Altransit said..^^

Also, if the replacement batteries are new and bulging/leaking acid after running the engine it would make me very suspicious of the charging system, very unlikely to be a couple of duff new batteries, most quality batteries are quite good these days, even the really poor ones will usually be fine for a few months, a good quality battery should last a good 5 years or more if not abused.

I suspect your alternator may be "overcharging", it'll possibly be the voltage regulator in the alternator not happy. Have you had the charging system properly checked..?? Should be ~14.4v-ish across battery with the engine running, any higher and she'll cook the battery/s.... ~12.5-12.6v at rest, easy to do with a multimeter.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby davyjcb » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:53 pm

Remember to take out the plug on the end of your new battery and fit the vent pipe when charging the battery can pressurize also its under your seat and the fumes aren't good for you the vent goes through a grommet in the floor
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby spencenpc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:57 pm

davyjcb wrote:Remember to take out the plug on the end of your new battery and fit the vent pipe when charging the battery can pressurize also its under your seat and the fumes aren't good for you the vent goes through a grommet in the floor


Didn't even know there was a vent! Will have a look - thanks
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby Altransit » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:10 pm

spencenpc wrote:
davyjcb wrote:Remember to take out the plug on the end of your new battery and fit the vent pipe when charging the battery can pressurize also its under your seat and the fumes aren't good for you the vent goes through a grommet in the floor


Didn't even know there was a vent! Will have a look - thanks

It's that red plug in your picture above :)
1994 Mk4 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (R.I.P.)
1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
2008 Mk7 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.2 TDCi - Also Vantunered
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby lofty531135 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:43 pm

I just had the same happen to me in that the battery acid was coming out of the top of the battery and a smell of sulphur.

I put a voltmeter on the battery and with the engine running it was charging at 19.5 volts.

when I first started the van everything was working fine then after 10 seconds my symptoms were no fuel or temperature gauge, no rev counter or speedo and no radio.

Cheers.
Ian.
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby knobby1 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:01 am

lofty531135 wrote:I put a voltmeter on the battery and with the engine running it was charging at 19.5 volts. Cheers. Ian.


There's your answer right there....19.5v is just a tad more than the battery would like...and more than the vehicle electrical system would like....especially for a 12v system.. :roll:

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby andz327 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:34 am

knobby1 wrote:
lofty531135 wrote:I put a voltmeter on the battery and with the engine running it was charging at 19.5 volts. Cheers. Ian.


There's your answer right there....19.5v is just a tad more than the battery would like...and more than the vehicle electrical system would like....especially for a 12v system.. :roll:

Lord Knobrot
19.5 volts Fook i wouldn't want to be sit on top of that , Johnny cash springs to mind
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby knobby1 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:51 am

andz327 wrote:Johnny cash springs to mind


LOL... :lol: :lol:

Yeah...~15v is aboot all they can handle without throwing in the towel. :roll:

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby spencenpc » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:47 am

It's going in to be checked over - will copy and paste your answers to the guys looking at it - thanks for the tips / answers - will post what happens when i know more :-)
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby jumbo 57 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:38 pm

Had to think for a second or two re. Johnny Cash. :lol:
Ouch :!:
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby spencenpc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:34 pm

Well - not the alternator - all voltages checking out fine both at rest and revving. Going in Friday for some long term investigation
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby knobby1 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:09 pm

spencenpc wrote:Well - not the alternator - all voltages checking out fine both at rest and revving. Going in Friday for some long term investigation


I thought you said it had 19.5 volts with engine running..?? Something doesn't sound right.. :?

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: On going starting issues any help?

Postby Altransit » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:31 pm

knobby1 wrote:I thought you said it had 19.5 volts with engine running..?? Something doesn't sound right.. :?

Lord Knobrot

No M'Lud, that was Lofty that said that, not the OP :mrgreen: :D
1994 Mk4 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (R.I.P.)
1997 Mk5 SWB 115 Minibus 70ps Di (Gone, but not forgotten!)
2004 Mk6 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.0 TDDi - Vantunered (Also gone)
2008 Mk7 SWB T280 Medium Roof 85PS 2.2 TDCi - Also Vantunered
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