FORScan Pilot Injector Learn Fail: Error Code 88

[Brian Damage]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can shed any light for me as I’m at my whits end with my van. Recently changed a faulty injector in cylinder No2 for a recon injector with paperwork and new code, while changing it I changed all copper washers, gaskets and o-rings, I cut the injector seats with an injector seat cutting tool, annealed the copper washers, coded the new injector, done a pump learn and tried to do an injector pilot learn but it fails every time giving me Error Code 88: injector exceeded learning limits. Even after cutting seats and changing washers to genuine Ford washers I still get a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up. Reading my injectors on live data 1,3 and 4 are around -1.3/-1.4. On cold start first thing in the morning the rev needle stays at 0 and it only sounds half awake for about 15 seconds before kicking into life and going up to 900rpm where it will smoke for about 5 minutes before clearing but will stink of unburnt fuel. I’ve also recently changed the SCV. can anyone help please as I don’t know what else I can do, is it a case of new injectors because of the live data readings (hence why it says exceeded learning limits) or is it more serious I.e a cracked cylinder (smoke from oil filler cap after new washers/seals) it’s a 2010 2.2 FWD. Thanks

[knobby1]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can shed any light for me as I’m at my whits end with my van. Recently changed a faulty injector in cylinder No2 for a recon injector with paperwork and new code, while changing it I changed all copper washers, gaskets and o-rings, I cut the injector seats with an injector seat cutting tool, annealed the copper washers, coded the new injector, done a pump learn and tried to do an injector pilot learn but it fails every time giving me Error Code 88: injector exceeded learning limits. Even after cutting seats and changing washers to genuine Ford washers I still get a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up. Reading my injectors on live data 1,3 and 4 are around -1.3/-1.4. On cold start first thing in the morning the rev needle stays at 0 and it only sounds half awake for about 15 seconds before kicking into life and going up to 900rpm where it will smoke for about 5 minutes before clearing but will stink of unburnt fuel. I’ve also recently changed the SCV. can anyone help please as I don’t know what else I can do, is it a case of new injectors because of the live data readings (hence why it says exceeded learning limits) or is it more serious I.e a cracked cylinder (smoke from oil filler cap after new washers/seals) it’s a 2010 2.2 FWD. Thanks

Couple of things...was the SCV a "genuine" Ford/Denso unit..?? Injector "corrections" should ideally be +/- 1.0. An injector leak-off test will give a good idea of injector health. If the rpm needle doesn't register properly, you may have a poorly/intermittent crank sensor, it may be covered in metal swarf from the DMF failing, fairly common, worth checking at least.

What colour smoke are you seeing..??

Lord Knobrot

[Brian Damage]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone can shed any light for me as I’m at my whits end with my van. Recently changed a faulty injector in cylinder No2 for a recon injector with paperwork and new code, while changing it I changed all copper washers, gaskets and o-rings, I cut the injector seats with an injector seat cutting tool, annealed the copper washers, coded the new injector, done a pump learn and tried to do an injector pilot learn but it fails every time giving me Error Code 88: injector exceeded learning limits. Even after cutting seats and changing washers to genuine Ford washers I still get a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up. Reading my injectors on live data 1,3 and 4 are around -1.3/-1.4. On cold start first thing in the morning the rev needle stays at 0 and it only sounds half awake for about 15 seconds before kicking into life and going up to 900rpm where it will smoke for about 5 minutes before clearing but will stink of unburnt fuel. I’ve also recently changed the SCV. can anyone help please as I don’t know what else I can do, is it a case of new injectors because of the live data readings (hence why it says exceeded learning limits) or is it more serious I.e a cracked cylinder (smoke from oil filler cap after new washers/seals) it’s a 2010 2.2 FWD. Thanks

Couple of things...was the SCV a "genuine" Ford/Denso unit..?? Injector "corrections" should ideally be +/- 1.0. An injector leak-off test will give a good idea of injector health. If the rpm needle doesn't register properly, you may have a poorly/intermittent crank sensor, it may be covered in metal swarf from the DMF failing, fairly common, worth checking at least.

What colour smoke are you seeing..??

Lord Knobrot

Hi knobby thanks for your reply,

The SCV probably wasn’t genuine but it was bought from a reputable website and not the eBay special. Okay I’ve got 3 injectors reading around -1.3/-1.4 does this mean they’re too far gone for the pilot learn to complete? With the rev needle it does registers correctly and works fine 90% of the time, for some reason on cold start only the rev needle stays at 0 for about 10/15 seconds and while it’s at 0 the engine doesnt sound like it’s fully on before kicking into life and idling normally and won’t do it again unless it’s been left sitting for hours, in that case how would I check the crank sensor? And I get white smoke that stinks of unburnt diesel on cold start for about 5 minutes then clears off, doesn’t seem as if there’s any smoke when driving or under load though

Thanks

[Burn2]

Hello,

DId you enter the injector code (correction code) in forscan?

For the value -1mg is not enormous. I could have more then -3/-4 or + 5 on mine. (it's not always the same injecto depend on the conditions and temperature)
(i never done a injector learn from the beginning because i do not want to be stucked but i think i should do it... )

If i am not wrong, i remember that on the 2.2 there where a pcm update to support some injector, does your transit is up to date?
(not sure it's all the 2.2 and i could be wrong, but i remember to have read that somewhere)

[Brian Damage]

Hello,

DId you enter the injector code (correction code) in forscan?

For the value -1mg is not enormous. I could have more then -3/-4 or + 5 on mine. (it's not always the same injecto depend on the conditions and temperature)
(i never done a injector learn from the beginning because i do not want to be stucked but i think i should do it... )

If i am not wrong, i remember that on the 2.2 there where a pcm update to support some injector, does your transit is up to date?
(not sure it's all the 2.2 and i could be wrong, but i remember to have read that somewhere)

Hi Burn2

Yes the first thing I did after I installed the new injector was code it in and from what I’ve seen on live data that one injector alone seems to be running very well but not the other 3, to be honest I’m not sure if it’s had a PCM update as I’ve only had the van for 4 months, is forscan able to do this?

Thanks

[knobby1]

Hello,

DId you enter the injector code (correction code) in forscan?

For the value -1mg is not enormous. I could have more then -3/-4 or + 5 on mine. (it's not always the same injecto depend on the conditions and temperature)
(i never done a injector learn from the beginning because i do not want to be stucked but i think i should do it... )

If i am not wrong, i remember that on the 2.2 there where a pcm update to support some injector, does your transit is up to date?
(not sure it's all the 2.2 and i could be wrong, but i remember to have read that somewhere)

Hi Burn2

Yes the first thing I did after I installed the new injector was code it in and from what I’ve seen on live data that one injector alone seems to be running very well but not the other 3, to be honest I’m not sure if it’s had a PCM update as I’ve only had the van for 4 months, is forscan able to do this?

Thanks

Latest PCM update for the Euro-4 was released way back in 2012, all it did was introduce anti-stall, got rid of the spurious "WIF" water in fuel warnings and a few other minor things, nothing regarding injection mapping was covered in the firmware. There was a firmware update for the Euro-5's due to many of them blowing holes in pistons etc...but they use a different fuel system to the Euro-4.

Lord Knobrot

Lord Knobrot

[knobby1]

Hi knobby thanks for your reply,

The SCV probably wasn’t genuine but it was bought from a reputable website and not the eBay special. Okay I’ve got 3 injectors reading around -1.3/-1.4 does this mean they’re too far gone for the pilot learn to complete? With the rev needle it does registers correctly and works fine 90% of the time, for some reason on cold start only the rev needle stays at 0 for about 10/15 seconds and while it’s at 0 the engine doesnt sound like it’s fully on before kicking into life and idling normally and won’t do it again unless it’s been left sitting for hours, in that case how would I check the crank sensor? And I get white smoke that stinks of unburnt diesel on cold start for about 5 minutes then clears off, doesn’t seem as if there’s any smoke when driving or under load though

Thanks

If the SCV wasn't "genuine" Ford/Denso you're probably wasting your time. They often fail the learns, even if they do pass, they usually fail soon after and give poor performance and economy results. Did you perform the pump learn after fitting the new SCV..??

The pump, pilot and injector learns must be completed successfully or it will never run properly. Injectors with corrections of 1.3/1.4 isn't too bad and a run on the learns may bring them back....I had a chap at my place a few weeks ago with one injector reading -3.1...I ran the learns a couple of times and got it back to -0.9...not a bad result TBH. Leak-off test was ok though.

If the crank or cam sensors didn't work, it would never start, they need cam/crank sync to start. However, they can suffer from metal swarf on the crank sensors from the DMF which can cause intermittent faults, worth popping it out to check at least...then reset it's "pick-up depth".

Lord Knobrot

[Brian Damage]

Hi knobby thanks for your reply,

The SCV probably wasn’t genuine but it was bought from a reputable website and not the eBay special. Okay I’ve got 3 injectors reading around -1.3/-1.4 does this mean they’re too far gone for the pilot learn to complete? With the rev needle it does registers correctly and works fine 90% of the time, for some reason on cold start only the rev needle stays at 0 for about 10/15 seconds and while it’s at 0 the engine doesnt sound like it’s fully on before kicking into life and idling normally and won’t do it again unless it’s been left sitting for hours, in that case how would I check the crank sensor? And I get white smoke that stinks of unburnt diesel on cold start for about 5 minutes then clears off, doesn’t seem as if there’s any smoke when driving or under load though

Thanks

If the SCV wasn't "genuine" Ford/Denso you're probably wasting your time. They often fail the learns, even if they do pass, they usually fail soon after and give poor performance and economy results. Did you perform the pump learn after fitting the new SCV..??

The pump, pilot and injector learns must be completed successfully or it will never run properly. Injectors with corrections of 1.3/1.4 isn't too bad and a run on the learns may bring them back....I had a chap at my place a few weeks ago with one injector reading -3.1...I ran the learns a couple of times and got it back to -0.9...not a bad result TBH. Leak-off test was ok though.

If the crank or cam sensors didn't work, it would never start, they need cam/crank sync to start. However, they can suffer from metal swarf on the crank sensors from the DMF which can cause intermittent faults, worth popping it out to check at least...then reset it's "pick-up depth".

Lord Knobrot

Yeah as soon as i changed the SCV I ran the pump learn and it completed successfully, before I changed my old one when I went to do pump learns I always got a message saying the fuel rail pressure had to be within tolerances up to 30000 and mine always read around 33000 which I had to wait until it dropped before continuing. Since changing the SCV I don’t really seem to have any problems when completing pump learn it’s the pilot learn that fails every time and won’t complete no matter what I try, I even tried putting my old SCV back in and trying again but no luck. My only issues are: takes a few seconds to crank on cold start, rev needle stays at 0 for about 10 seconds, loads of smoke on start up until it starts to warm up a bit and rough idle. What would you suggest I do from here? Leak off test?

When having a look at the crank sensor is there anything I need to know? Is it a case of just unbolt it, take it out and put it back in again? I’ve heard they’re adjustable so I wouldn’t wanna end up putting it back in wrong or putting a new one in wrong and messing it up even more. How would I also reset the ‘pick up depth’?

Thanks

[knobby1]

Hi knobby thanks for your reply,

The SCV probably wasn’t genuine but it was bought from a reputable website and not the eBay special. Okay I’ve got 3 injectors reading around -1.3/-1.4 does this mean they’re too far gone for the pilot learn to complete? With the rev needle it does registers correctly and works fine 90% of the time, for some reason on cold start only the rev needle stays at 0 for about 10/15 seconds and while it’s at 0 the engine doesnt sound like it’s fully on before kicking into life and idling normally and won’t do it again unless it’s been left sitting for hours, in that case how would I check the crank sensor? And I get white smoke that stinks of unburnt diesel on cold start for about 5 minutes then clears off, doesn’t seem as if there’s any smoke when driving or under load though

Thanks

If the SCV wasn't "genuine" Ford/Denso you're probably wasting your time. They often fail the learns, even if they do pass, they usually fail soon after and give poor performance and economy results. Did you perform the pump learn after fitting the new SCV..??

The pump, pilot and injector learns must be completed successfully or it will never run properly. Injectors with corrections of 1.3/1.4 isn't too bad and a run on the learns may bring them back....I had a chap at my place a few weeks ago with one injector reading -3.1...I ran the learns a couple of times and got it back to -0.9...not a bad result TBH. Leak-off test was ok though.

If the crank or cam sensors didn't work, it would never start, they need cam/crank sync to start. However, they can suffer from metal swarf on the crank sensors from the DMF which can cause intermittent faults, worth popping it out to check at least...then reset it's "pick-up depth".

Lord Knobrot

Yeah as soon as i changed the SCV I ran the pump learn and it completed successfully, before I changed my old one when I went to do pump learns I always got a message saying the fuel rail pressure had to be within tolerances up to 30000 and mine always read around 33000 which I had to wait until it dropped before continuing. Since changing the SCV I don’t really seem to have any problems when completing pump learn it’s the pilot learn that fails every time and won’t complete no matter what I try, I even tried putting my old SCV back in and trying again but no luck. My only issues are: takes a few seconds to crank on cold start, rev needle stays at 0 for about 10 seconds, loads of smoke on start up until it starts to warm up a bit and rough idle. What would you suggest I do from here? Leak off test?

When having a look at the crank sensor is there anything I need to know? Is it a case of just unbolt it, take it out and put it back in again? I’ve heard they’re adjustable so I wouldn’t wanna end up putting it back in wrong or putting a new one in wrong and messing it up even more. How would I also reset the ‘pick up depth’?

Thanks

RPM reading zero is a bit of a worry...Tacho gets it's signal from the crank sensor. Check for possible sensor wiring issues whilst you're in there. The sensor itself is a simple magnetic hall effect unit. Pop it out and see if there's a silly amount of metal swarf on it, if there is, the DMF is showing sign of excessive wear...and possibly on it's last legs. When refitting, push the sensor in until it "just" touches the flywheel teeth and nip it up, it will then make it's own air gap.

Lord Knobrot

[Brian Damage]

RPM reading zero is a bit of a worry...Tacho gets it's signal from the crank sensor. Check for possible sensor wiring issues whilst you're in there. The sensor itself is a simple magnetic hall effect unit. Pop it out and see if there's a silly amount of metal swarf on it, if there is, the DMF is showing sign of excessive wear...and possibly on it's last legs. When refitting, push the sensor in until it "just" touches the flywheel teeth and nip it up, it will then make it's own air gap.

Lord Knobrot[/quote]


Great thanks a lot mate I will give this a try, do I need to do any type of learn or anything after or is it just a case of pop it out and put it back in as you say?

Thanks

[knobby1]

RPM reading zero is a bit of a worry...Tacho gets it's signal from the crank sensor. Check for possible sensor wiring issues whilst you're in there. The sensor itself is a simple magnetic hall effect unit. Pop it out and see if there's a silly amount of metal swarf on it, if there is, the DMF is showing sign of excessive wear...and possibly on it's last legs. When refitting, push the sensor in until it "just" touches the flywheel teeth and nip it up, it will then make it's own air gap.

Lord Knobrot

Great thanks a lot mate I will give this a try, do I need to do any type of learn or anything after or is it just a case of pop it out and put it back in as you say?

Thanks[/quote]

No learns etc on the crank or cam sensors, they're plug 'n play.... there is a "cam/crank" sync test you can do in forscan, but if the engine starts, they must work.

Lord Knobrot

[Brian Damage]

RPM reading zero is a bit of a worry...Tacho gets it's signal from the crank sensor. Check for possible sensor wiring issues whilst you're in there. The sensor itself is a simple magnetic hall effect unit. Pop it out and see if there's a silly amount of metal swarf on it, if there is, the DMF is showing sign of excessive wear...and possibly on it's last legs. When refitting, push the sensor in until it "just" touches the flywheel teeth and nip it up, it will then make it's own air gap.

Lord Knobrot

Great thanks a lot mate I will give this a try, do I need to do any type of learn or anything after or is it just a case of pop it out and put it back in as you say?

Thanks

No learns etc on the crank or cam sensors, they're plug 'n play.... there is a "cam/crank" sync test you can do in forscan, but if the engine starts, they must work.

Lord Knobrot[/quote]

Great thanks mate, I did notice when cutting/cleaning the injector seats that in injector No3 bore it looks like a there’s a little chunk missing right on the seat where the copper washer sits, I cut it as much as I could but I’ve heard alot about the pilot learn failing because of injectors not sealed correctly, do you think my pilot learns won’t complete because of this? I forgot to mention there is a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up, it’s barely noticeable but it’s there, or is a small amount normal?

Thanks

[knobby1]

Great thanks mate, I did notice when cutting/cleaning the injector seats that in injector No3 bore it looks like a there’s a little chunk missing right on the seat where the copper washer sits, I cut it as much as I could but I’ve heard alot about the pilot learn failing because of injectors not sealed correctly, do you think my pilot learns won’t complete because of this? I forgot to mention there is a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up, it’s barely noticeable but it’s there, or is a small amount normal?

Thanks

Injector learns failing will have nothing to do with the injector seats. Have you done an injector leak-off test..?? This will give a good idea of injector health.

Small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap at idle is normal...no engine is free from this, there must at least be some blow-by from rings etc.. When they chuff like an old steam train you can just about guarantee the injector copper washers are munted.

Lord Knobrot

[Addemod]

I were also having trouble doing the pilot learn at first. However, I got error code 196.
Did you bleed your fuel lines after reinstalling them? I could never get the engine running without manuelly cracking each line open until diesel were coming out, one line at a time.

I also got the same issue with the rev needle, feels like this is due to the engine being flooded but then it recovers after some time. Mine also had lots of white diesel smoke on startup.

Did you replace all injectors at the correct position? If not, you have to code each individual injector.

To ”fix” my error code, I took the van for a short drive to try get rid of any air left in the system. Not sure if this actually was what fixad it or not, but I could successfully do the learn after.

Check my post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=227568

[Brian Damage]

Great thanks mate, I did notice when cutting/cleaning the injector seats that in injector No3 bore it looks like a there’s a little chunk missing right on the seat where the copper washer sits, I cut it as much as I could but I’ve heard alot about the pilot learn failing because of injectors not sealed correctly, do you think my pilot learns won’t complete because of this? I forgot to mention there is a very small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap when it’s warmed up, it’s barely noticeable but it’s there, or is a small amount normal?

Thanks

Injector learns failing will have nothing to do with the injector seats. Have you done an injector leak-off test..?? This will give a good idea of injector health.

Small amount of smoke from the oil filler cap at idle is normal...no engine is free from this, there must at least be some blow-by from rings etc.. When they chuff like an old steam train you can just about guarantee the injector copper washers are munted.

Lord Knobrot

No unfortunately I don't have access to a leak off test kit, I ran live data on my cylinders and the 3 cylinders with my original injectors are all in the negative where as the new reconditioned one is in the positive, but I suppose I’ll have to buy one for accuracy. But okay that’s great thanks for all your help and advice hopefully I can get to the bottom of it