Towing: GVW GTW RWD FWD Clarity

[cormie]

Hi folks,
I've read up on this in the past and had a search on this forum before posting this but I'm still unsure of the exact legal standing on towing.

Simple Question: Is it possible to have a combined weight of more than 3.5t on a Transit towing a caravan/trailer if the GVW of the Transit is stated as only 3.5t?

There is no Gross Train Weight stated on the log books but my Uncle is saying there is a Gross Train Weight stated on the VIN plate that is the second weight rating down, the first being the Gross.

I've attached a photo of the VIN of each of my transits. The FWD Luton with the 4500kg figure under 3500 is the only one I have a tow bar fitted to.

So if the driver has a license that covers over 3.5 and and the GTW of the van, is it ok to have for example, the van loaded up to 3,400kg including driver, passenger etc and then tow a trailer of 1,000kg on all vans I have? And then the trailer allowance will go up based on the GTW?

Do the laws differ from country to country at all with what is allowed too?

[TIMO]

example,,, a 350 lwb van ( which relates to your jumbo)... GVW 3500 inc driver ... has a GTW of 5750 ... you can fully load van to 3500kg inc driver and still tow 2250 BRAKED trailer ,, but unbraked trailer maximum 750kg,,, but only if you have the towing supplement on your licence .

[v8dave]

You also have to be certain what your usage is, it is possible you need a tachograph.

[exracsteve]

You also have to be certain what your usage is, it is possible you need a tachograph.

Any business use will require a tachograph fitted and a drivers cpc if gross train weight is more than 3500kg.
not sure if you would need operators license too.(google to check)

yes your gross train weight goes upso trailer can get heavier.. vans are still 3.5t max

mine is 3210kg for van and 5000kg gross train
works mk6 was 2600kg and 3500 gross train to keep with the new trailer license rules ie. No tacho, no trailer license.

[ake]

Hi folks,
I've read up on this in the past and had a search on this forum before posting this but I'm still unsure of the exact legal standing on towing.

Simple Question: Is it possible to have a combined weight of more than 3.5t on a Transit towing a caravan/trailer if the GVW of the Transit is stated as only 3.5t?

There is no Gross Train Weight stated on the log books but my Uncle is saying there is a Gross Train Weight stated on the VIN plate that is the second weight rating down, the first being the Gross.

I've attached a photo of the VIN of each of my transits. The FWD Luton with the 4500kg figure under 3500 is the only one I have a tow bar fitted to.

So if the driver has a license that covers over 3.5 and and the GTW of the van, is it ok to have for example, the van loaded up to 3,400kg including driver, passenger etc and then tow a trailer of 1,000kg on all vans I have? And then the trailer allowance will go up based on the GTW?

Do the laws differ from country to country at all with what is allowed too?

First figure is maximum vehicle weight
Second figure is max train weight ( Van and trailer)

First van can tow max 2500kg behind loaded van
Second can tow 1000kg behind loaded van
Third can tow 2250 kg behind loaded van

The fwd are always lower plated for towing, quite frankly because they are rubbish at it.
I'd put the towbar on one of the rwd vans
Remember you need to allow for the actual weight of the trailer, before you load it up.

All subject to correct licenses and tachograph laws, insurance etc etc

[(ROG)]

Are you towing for commercial reasons and what exactly is the type of job being done as that will determine whether a tacho is needed

Do you have a B+E on your licence

[cormie]

Thanks a lot for all the replies! Just to clarify, this is not going to be a commercial endeavour, the van will be towing my uncle's caravan from Spain to Ireland, the caravan is 1,300kg and braked. There'll also be a few things going into the van but not much. Anyway, no need for tacho in this instance I see.

The only problem I see with the replies above is the 1,000kg max tow on the fwd. Is that certain? So if the van is only 3,000kg fully loaded, I'm still only allowed tow 1,000kg because it's GTW minus GVW and not GTW minus van and load weight?

I'd much prefer to take the Jumbo on this trip, but the tow bar on the Luton fwd is for a chassis cab and I also have a reverse sensor bumper on jumbo, I can't link to it now, but I just posted about this a day or two ago where you can see example of my bumper, I imagine it would be a big undertaking to adapt it to the jumbo. I'd much rather the tow to be permanently in the jumbo too.

[(ROG)]

..... this is not going to be a commercial endeavour ..... no need for tacho in this instance I see.

the caravan is 1,300kg and braked
The only problem I see with the replies above is the 1,000kg max tow on the fwd. Is that certain? So if the van is only 3,000kg fully loaded, I'm still only allowed tow 1,000kg because it's GTW minus GVW and not GTW minus van and load weight?

That is certain UNLESS the V5 states a higher towing capacity OR there is no towing capacity listed anywhere for it in which case the GTW can be used as the driver sees fit

The fact that the vehicle GVW added to the caravan MTPLM totals more than the GTW is not a legal concern

If the caravan is say 950 empty (MIRO) then load 50 max into it and put everything else into the vehicle

[cormie]

Thanks for the reply. These are all registered in Ireland and so don't have a v5, just the Irish log book. There is no towing capacity listed on this, so in that case it should be ok to tow 1,300 on a 4500gtw 3500gvw van but your advising, if possible to get the caravan to 1,000, but there is no legal requirement to do this?

[(ROG)]

Thanks for the reply. These are all registered in Ireland and so don't have a v5, just the Irish log book. There is no towing capacity listed on this, so in that case it should be ok to tow 1,300 on a 4500gtw 3500gvw van but your advising, if possible to get the caravan to 1,000, but there is no legal requirement to do this?

Does the logbook or the specs on the internet state a max towing capacity - if yes then there is one and exceeding that can get you into hot water with authorities and insurers

[cormie]

Definitely nothing on the log book, what specs on the Internet are you referring to?

[(ROG)]

Definitely nothing on the log book, what specs on the Internet are you referring to?

Any that give a max towing capacity for the model of vehicle you drive

[cormie]

That's the problem, it's a Transit 350 125, but they all are, and all have different GTW so a little confused on that...

[TIMO]

it says on all my logbooks what the permissable towing weight is mate ,, in section 4,, the blue bit with vehicle details,,, my 350 90 rwd is allowed to pull 2800kg braked ,, ( i thought it was 2250 ) and 750 unbraked.

[ake]

That's the problem, it's a Transit 350 125, but they all are, and all have different GTW so a little confused on that...

Just buy a tow bar for the jumbo.