Mk7 Turbo boost control fault - P2563

[rossco_pb]

Had a dreaded power train fault light appear and van went into limp mode. Pulled over, stop and start and all good until floored it on a hill and faulted again so dropped into nearest Ford and $98 later told is P2563 which is Turbo boost control position sensor circuit. They cleared code - pcm all up to date and no other problems. Was advised that it can be an issue with this model vehicle (2008, LWB, 140ps engine) but it should be ok for maybe a year or so if lucky. Ford approach to repair is to replace whole turbo assy. Van has only done about 62k km (motorhome).

After code cleared I was not able fault again so I asked Ford had they tweaked something - they say no, just read and cleared code. Strange...

So, did some research on net and found crowds that refurbish the Garrett control unit but all in the UK - but me in NZ so took it apart to see what gives and found worm drive gear assy grubby due to wear of the worm (no lubrication) and lots of end float which is turn translates into actuator arm freeplay. Removed the motor and gear assy and shimmed it to remove end play and lubricated with silicon grease and reassembled and reinstalled and still cannot make it fail. Actuator arm into turbo very free so does not feel like the vanes sticking...

Installed a boost gauge I had sitting around so I can see what is happening and find that there is always boost present unless decelerating - peaks at about 19lb and then pcm drops it back to the max of 17lb so no apparent problems there.

What I don't understand is the Ford take on the issue, ie that sometimes these glitches occur and at some point in the future it will fail... Does anyone have any insight as to what it may be that is causing this type of issue with this particular model of transit (and Garrett actuator) as from what Ford said it is quite common?

[knobby1]

Had a dreaded power train fault light appear and van went into limp mode. Pulled over, stop and start and all good until floored it on a hill and faulted again so dropped into nearest Ford and $98 later told is P2563 which is Turbo boost control position sensor circuit. They cleared code - pcm all up to date and no other problems. Was advised that it can be an issue with this model vehicle (2008, LWB, 140ps engine) but it should be ok for maybe a year or so if lucky. Ford approach to repair is to replace whole turbo assy. Van has only done about 62k km (motorhome).

After code cleared I was not able fault again so I asked Ford had they tweaked something - they say no, just read and cleared code. Strange...

So, did some research on net and found crowds that refurbish the Garrett control unit but all in the UK - but me in NZ so took it apart to see what gives and found worm drive gear assy grubby due to wear of the worm (no lubrication) and lots of end float which is turn translates into actuator arm freeplay. Removed the motor and gear assy and shimmed it to remove end play and lubricated with silicon grease and reassembled and reinstalled and still cannot make it fail. Actuator arm into turbo very free so does not feel like the vanes sticking...

Installed a boost gauge I had sitting around so I can see what is happening and find that there is always boost present unless decelerating - peaks at about 19lb and then pcm drops it back to the max of 17lb so no apparent problems there.

What I don't understand is the Ford take on the issue, ie that sometimes these glitches occur and at some point in the future it will fail... Does anyone have any insight as to what it may be that is causing this type of issue with this particular model of transit (and Garrett actuator) as from what Ford said it is quite common?

Yeah....theses actuators have a history of being a bit flaky...as you've seen, there's not much in them, just clean the little worm gears, shim them up as best you can and hope for the best....I think it's the heat which eventually gets to them. There should be no boost at all at idle though, at least mine doesn't have any.....will boost up to ~22psi on a full throttle pull though....but mine has been re-mapped and puts out a goodly amount of mid range grunt and quite a few more ponies than stock..!

Must be that Kiwi air over the ditch..!

Lord Knobrot

[rossco_pb]

Cheers for that - perhaps I will install a fan to blow on the actuator

There should be no boost at all at idle though

yes correct, none at idle either. Makes you wonder when it ever thinks it can open the EGR as presumably it would not open if boost pressure present?

Is handy having the boost gauge on, can see what is happening:-)

[knobby1]

Cheers for that - perhaps I will install a fan to blow on the actuator

There should be no boost at all at idle though

yes correct, none at idle either. Makes you wonder when it ever thinks it can open the EGR as presumably it would not open if boost pressure present?

Is handy having the boost gauge on, can see what is happening:-)

Yeah, I have a boost gauge on mine too, good to know whats happening...EGR is electronically actuated on the Mk7 Transits, they have a small stepper motor in them..!

Lord Knobrot

[Jim Archer]

EGR operates any time the manifold vacuum is expected to drop below that of the exhaust manifold where the EGR feed is taken.

Hence why they can show a MAP or MAF code when the EGR valve sticks as inlet pressure and/or flow isn't what the ECM expects to see - thus it assumes something is wrong .... somewhere ....

Jim

[knobby1]

EGR operates any time the manifold vacuum is expected to drop below that of the exhaust manifold where the EGR feed is taken.

Hence why they can show a MAP or MAF code when the EGR valve sticks as inlet pressure and/or flow isn't what the ECM expects to see - thus it assumes something is wrong .... somewhere ....

Jim

What Jim said....we see a lot of MAF & MAP fault codes due to this issue....and people often change out their MAF & MAP sensors for new ones no reason.... and hence they still find they have the same fault codes and blame it on faulty new sensors when it's probably a duff EGR all along...a bit of a trap for young players and even some inexperienced dealers and mechanics will also fall for it.

Lord Knobrot

[rossco_pb]

I am wondering if the sensor intermittent failure may be due to thermal fatigue of the solder on the control board. Same sort of thing happens to graphics chips in computers - in those situations you can sometimes repair by cooking the board in an over to re-flow the solder joints. Unfortunately this is not practical with the Garrett board as the board is not easily removed plus is is completely or partially lacquered...

Given this thing is likely to fail again I have installed a fan above it (and the turbo) so as to try and keep it a bit cooler. I was thinking of also adding a layer of insulating material between the alloy case and the bracket that is bolted to the turbo but a bit worried about mucking up alignment of the actuator arm. Will see how it goes with a fan running on it... held in place with cable ties, really professional lol

20161207_111120.jpg

[knobby1]

I am wondering if the sensor intermittent failure may be due to thermal fatigue of the solder on the control board. Same sort of thing happens to graphics chips in computers - in those situations you can sometimes repair by cooking the board in an over to re-flow the solder joints. Unfortunately this is not practical with the Garrett board as the board is not easily removed plus is is completely or partially lacquered...

Given this thing is likely to fail again I have installed a fan above it (and the turbo) so as to try and keep it a bit cooler. I was thinking of also adding a layer of insulating material between the alloy case and the bracket that is bolted to the turbo but a bit worried about mucking up alignment of the actuator arm. Will see how it goes with a fan running on it... held in place with cable ties, really professional lol

20161207_111120.jpg

I dunno how well that will work since the air it's blowing will tend to be hot as well, gotta be better than nothing I guess, she gets pretty warm in there in the Summer, at least here in Shitney it does....we had ~39C last Friday, was hellishly hot. Heat shielding sounds a good idea too, maybe some of that turbo heat shield stuff you can buy at Super-Cheap Auto...I have some around the turbine housing section of my Go-Kart...works well to stop radiant heat damaging my wiring etc...

Lord Knobrot

[rossco_pb]

39 deg - jeepers, in balmy Northland we might get into the high 20's and that is hot enough. Being close to the ocean helps...

I will do a couple of test runs with fan off and then on and see what temperature readings I get off the black electronics enclosure and surrounds. Interesting exercise if nothing else

[rossco_pb]

I dunno how well that will work since the air it's blowing will tend to be hot as well
Lord Knobrot

You were correct - after a good run with the fan OFF then ON there was no useful difference, the plastic enclosure actually showed as being hotter (60C as opposed to 50C) with the fan on but think it might have been due to it being later in the day and the ambient air temp being a bit warmer or it could be fan taking hot air trapped in the upper reaches of the engine compartment and sending them onto the actuator-ho humm Back to the drawing board. Will have to relocate the fan to lower down and where fresh air is entering...

[rossco_pb]

Fan in new location - strapped very professionally with white cable ties onto the PCV pipe where it enters the intake ducting and pointing more or less at the actuator. Not sure why I am bothering though - info I found online about the Garrett actuator is that they have an operating range from -50C to 125C but what the heck, nothing ventured, nothing gained

20161210_083444.jpg

[rossco_pb]

Well after some 1500km with no reoccurrence of the fault it happened again and with boost gauge was able to see what happens. Basically normal operation of boost when accelerating quite heavily is boost will flick to say 20lb then pcm pulls it back to max of 17lb. When actuator playing up this does not happen, ie boost goes to 20 or even 25lb but stays there!!! Yikes. Taking foot off the gas results in pressure dropping off and one can then ease boost to max of 17lb slowly. Once failing it will happen repeatedly but can be managed by easing off on the gas once I see the over boost.

I am convinced it is heat related as happens when weather is hot or after stopping for a while during which air temp under bonnet can increase due to no air flow.

What I don't understand yet is what is actually failing on the actuator.

Note, I no longer have the fan blowing on it as the failure had not re occurred....

Anyways, bit of info for anyone else who may experience this problem

[Jim Archer]

Time to leap out and check if the vane control arm is still free moving.

Jim

[rossco_pb]

Time to leap out and check if the vane control arm is still free moving.

Jim

Ha ha, yes you are right - might be a bit of a fiddle getting the circlip off without burning my fingers and dropping it tho

I will however check the vanes for free movement again and give them a bit of a jiggle and see if anything changes. The van only done 65k km

[paul2012]

See thread here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=177410&hilit