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recurring electrical issue

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recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:53 pm

Long post ahead!

I posted back in October with a fault I was having with my van (2009 2.4 115), after an hour or so of driving it would lose the rev counter and speedometer, the powertrain, engine management, spanner and esp light would come on, the mileage and trip would go to ------- and the engine would idle fine but run erratically when driving, kangarooing, speeding up too much on light throttle, pauses in power after gearchanges and much reduced power.
I replaced the one older battery (so had one new battery, one that was 6 months old) and had them tested which was ok.
Got a Bluetooth obd adaptor and Torque, and by coincidence it stopped doing it.
A couple of weeks ago when the weather was hot, it did it again for one journey, immediately after it was started. Then ok again.
Now it does it occasionally but much less severe, just the pause in power after gearchanges now and intermittent loss of Speedo and rev counter. If I watch Torque at the same time, the rev counter continues to show correct revs, but when the Speedo drops to 0 on the dashboard, it drops to 0 in Torque.
For what its worth, torque also shows ECU voltage and obd voltage which are always the same as each other at about 14.4v
I do now have a faulty egr valve. It causes the engine management light to be on all the time. When I had the problem before I did not have a faulty egr valve. Quite odd but before the egr valve became faulty (or at least before the engine light came on and the sawing noise changed - its more of a screeching noise now) the van did used to smoke a bit when accelerating, now it never smokes.

I have the following fault codes P1796 U0140 P0100 P1102
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby loot » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:26 pm

Could clean the earth's up, if egr is faulty then replace it especially if it is passing gas because it should be shut when low revs and cold so it'll cause the symptoms you describe.
Ignition switch is a cheap item that commonly goes faulty.

Sort the above clear codes then see how it goes.

Typically batteries are best replaced together but if yours are a matched pair and the older 1 is only 6 months then it should be OK.
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby knobby1 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:04 pm

What Loot said...

Also sounds like your front battery needs proper load testing...common for the " ---- " to show up on the gauges if the front battery is dying.

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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:51 pm

It's not doing the ---- at the moment for some reason, just the power loss after gearchanges (or letting off accelerator fully then back on again when in gear), today it was quite bad when changing first to second, very rough.
I did get a egr delete remapped ecu from vantuner but accidentally asked for the 140 turbo software also.
Checked the codes again, the u0140 wasn't there today but others remain.

It seems to only do it when warm, it has done it before and after egr problems, before and after battery change, no smoke, starts well but would say it's underpowered at the moment.
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:12 pm

Did the ----- today, restarted it and had no response from accelerator for a couple of seconds which is a new one. I'm actually thinking the pause after a gearchange is it not responding to the pedal rather than a lack of power.

It timed well with a long driveway at work, so got a short clip of it (nothing for first 20 seconds or so) https://youtu.be/9a3KhOsHCkk it has no pattern though, seems to do it randomly. Sometimes rev stay ok and speedo stays at 0, sometimes powertrain and spanner stay on.

What is done on a proper load test? Taken off the van and left running something til it's flat? Could I just take the positive lead off that battery and link it directly to the rear battery to test instead?
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby knobby1 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:38 am

Load test is done with one of these..or similar:

Load tester..jpg


They put a known load across the battery to see if it's up to snuff.

If you throttle pedal doesn't react properly all the time...you may need a new one....they're a known fault if they've got a few miles on.

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When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:45 am

Took the speedo cluster out, cleaned the connectons are there seemed to be a residue across a couple of terminals. They have behaved since.
The power loss is still intermittent. It can drive fine for an hour and be fine, or after 5 minutes have no power until higher revs and occassionally stall while left idling or low speed manouevring.

Does this sound like SCV and PRV even though it's intermittent? It did used to have the fluctuating idle but hasn't done it for a while.
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby sparkyguy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:04 pm

Hi Aidanb. I am an auto-tech in Australia. I suspect that your problem is being caused by an intermittent interruption to the 5 volt reference supply which feeds many of the sensors in the system. It normally is supplied by the ECU (PCM if you prefer that terminology). A quality ECU pin-out should show the ECU pin number(s) and wire colour. The 5V supply often begins with only one wire and many splices are taken at points along the harness. This circuit should be 4.8 to 5.5 volts and be steady. It supplies such sensors (where applicable to engine type) as VSS, TPS, MAP,AFS,EGR, etc. Many of the functions you seeing glitches in, rely on such sensors either primary or secondary way. Try measuring the 5 volt supply at the AFS and/or other sensors while wriggling the various parts of the engine harness around. You might even like to try warming the harness with hair dryer at the same time. You should also test at the source point (i.e. the ECU pin) while banging the ECU case or the area surrounding it and/or warming it. While we don't see the diverse range of Transits in AU that you people have, I certainly see plenty of vehicles with the same or similar management systems, and I've seen this scenario many times in various conditions.
Hope this helps. Good luck !
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:52 am

Thanks for the detailed reply, hopefully its more simple than that but ciuld be the next step. I did some more monitoring of it hopefully someone will have an idea.

Started logging fuel rail pressure as I drive. Unless i barely touch the accelerator the pressure will drop when accelerating, then slowly build up. Most of the time, the harder you press the pedal the slower it builds up. This is ok on the flat or mild inclines, but on hills and higher speeds the van will slow down. I have found it would reach 1651bar after 10 seconds+ of full throttle and only at higher revs. Most of the time full throttle pressure is quite a bit lower.
The lowest pressure registered was 95 bar which I think was when it cut out.
Watched the gauge when revving it in neutral, when returning to idle the pressure fluctuated down to the ~150 bar then up to 300 and bounced around a bit.
I can be on a journey, come to one junction and it's not too bad, next junction it's quite bad, then ok again.

My obd can't measure maf, stays at 4.16g/s. Throttle pedal seems to respond fine to any input, max is only 85% though
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:26 pm

Been monitoring again (obd car doctor pro and Bluetooth obd adaptor on android)
Found pretty much the same results, gradually accelerate and fuel pressure builds up slowly, clutch in and fuel pressure jumps up then back down.
The harder you then press the accelerator the worse the pressure drop is, saw 0 bar a couple of times, under 100 bar quite a few times. Also the harder you press the accelerator the worse the spike in pressure afterwards is. When it dropped to under 100 bar, let off accelerator and spikes to over 1000 bar.

On the odd occasion it built pressure up ok, full acceleration up to 4000rpm saw up to 1700 bar but fluctuates down to 1300 then up to 1500 then to 1300 etc. You can feel this while driving.

Part throttle at same speed and same gear, roughly same load can be 500 bar one minute and 1200 the next.

Also found this get progressively worse from when its started to when I get home/to work (about 1 hour).
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby bambi mk 1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:37 pm

Might be worth changing the crank sensor :wink: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=181013 I had one doing similar and a new engine loom cured it.The are not overly expensive from Ford :)
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Re: recurring electrical issue

Postby Aidanb » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:59 pm

Dragging this one back up, I don't use the van anymore but a family member is and it is giving grief again.

Symptoms seem to match a few older posts where tyre size is incorrect.
Had it on forscan, logging all abs wheel sensors, all reading as matching, tyres are all new matching size.

However, traction light and abs light come on after a while, still drives fine. If I press the brake, rev counter drops, more lights come on, mileage goes to -----.
If I press the brake with the clutch pressed it does not happen.
Further driving ends up with engine running rough, surging, low on power etc.
When i press the brake as above, forscan loses its connection to all modules.

Trying it again later on, traction light on with engine running, abs flickers when brake pedal released.

I had an LED high level brake bulb which I thought could be the cause, have removed that (but not replaced it as the holder was rotten) but no difference. All exterior lights work as they should, no earth issues in the clusters.

Any ideas? Only fault codes on forscan were egr related and U codes for lost comms, no abs fault codes
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