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MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:15 am

MK7 user wrote:Alright dude. :)

Yeah....on your axle a 5.13 is the lowest they went.

I would guess a double cab tipper will be +2.6 tonne depending on the spec of the tipper, but a 120 shouldn't hang about unladen....if it feels as if it's at a snails pace I would guess there is more wrong with it than just fair wear & tear.

Do you know anything about it's history :?:


Hi MK7 user,

regarding service history i'm a frayed knot! I bought it 2 years ago. It's yellow and had caged hi sides so I guess I was an ex council waste collection vehicle used for house clearances etc.

Every know and again when i'm trundling along at a steady throttle it kind of 'misses' or has a 'hiccup', only happens every so often and it's a momentary blip. I do wonder if the fuel pump is well worn as the truck is on it's original engine (I checked the engine number off the logbook) and possibly the original fuel pump which is showing 125000 miles. Might have the timing checked.

I do like the sound of your suggestion with regards to a MK7, 140ps, 6 speed box, low gearing etc. But a lot of people 'scare monger' about Mk7's!
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby MK7 user » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:08 pm

Alright buddy. :)

It sounds every bit an ex council truck so we'll assume the 125K miles have been done "around the doors" but still not what you would call excessive given it's age.

I'm not a trained mechanic & the only Mk6 I've had was a company supplied vehicle that was contract maintained, so I'm not a Mk6 Guru by any streach of the imagination.

What I am reasonably sure of is that your engine & box with the same diff ratio was available in the 4.2 tonne van & chassis cab (albeit with a reinforced chassis), so it must be capable of operating at that weight, couple with the fact that on more than one occasion my own later model Mk6 with a 4.63 diff has hit the scales at 4.1 tonne. The dual mass flywheel did shit it's pants with a low service life but to be fair, it did do off road work & was pulling much higher gearing.

Regarding the pump....you will have the Bosch fuel system that has 100% failure rates ....I think the machanical parts of the pump are regarded as being fairly robust, it's the electronic gubbinns on the top of the pump that cause most of the problems & the fuel timing solenoids. When it's time for the pump electronics to quit they just quit, no warning, just give up the ghost, just like that....not like that, like that....the stored diagnostic error code then point you towards the pump electronics. The fuel solenoid wears out without generating any error codes until it finally goes plonk....I've heard people say they have fitted a new solenoid & the van goes like stink :!:

Timing chain tensioners (poor design) & worn chain guide rails are another common problem on a Mk6....you can probably envisage how that throws the timing out & results in incorrect fuel delivery.

The issue I would have with a 2002 model is how much do you drop into it before upgrading becomes a better option....the van has cost £x, does it earn you enough to warrant spending the same monetary value again on fettling it....only you can answer that, different people will turn different way's for different reasons.

The Mk7's have a much higher electronic component count & at times have had a justifiable slating....but if you drop on one that's been maintained regardless of cost & treated as someone's pride & joy (they do exist) you'll never want to go back to a smelly old tramps van of a Mk6, never....ever. :lol:
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:06 am

MK7 user wrote:Alright buddy. :)

It sounds every bit an ex council truck so we'll assume the 125K miles have been done "around the doors" but still not what you would call excessive given it's age.

I'm not a trained mechanic & the only Mk6 I've had was a company supplied vehicle that was contract maintained, so I'm not a Mk6 Guru by any streach of the imagination.

What I am reasonably sure of is that your engine & box with the same diff ratio was available in the 4.2 tonne van & chassis cab (albeit with a reinforced chassis), so it must be capable of operating at that weight, couple with the fact that on more than one occasion my own later model Mk6 with a 4.63 diff has hit the scales at 4.1 tonne. The dual mass flywheel did shit it's pants with a low service life but to be fair, it did do off road work & was pulling much higher gearing.

Regarding the pump....you will have the Bosch fuel system that has 100% failure rates ....I think the machanical parts of the pump are regarded as being fairly robust, it's the electronic gubbinns on the top of the pump that cause most of the problems & the fuel timing solenoids. When it's time for the pump electronics to quit they just quit, no warning, just give up the ghost, just like that....not like that, like that....the stored diagnostic error code then point you towards the pump electronics. The fuel solenoid wears out without generating any error codes until it finally goes plonk....I've heard people say they have fitted a new solenoid & the van goes like stink :!:

Timing chain tensioners (poor design) & worn chain guide rails are another common problem on a Mk6....you can probably envisage how that throws the timing out & results in incorrect fuel delivery.

The issue I would have with a 2002 model is how much do you drop into it before upgrading becomes a better option....the van has cost £x, does it earn you enough to warrant spending the same monetary value again on fettling it....only you can answer that, different people will turn different way's for different reasons.

The Mk7's have a much higher electronic component count & at times have had a justifiable slating....but if you drop on one that's been maintained regardless of cost & treated as someone's pride & joy (they do exist) you'll never want to go back to a smelly old tramps van of a Mk6, never....ever. :lol:



LOL at the 'smelly old tramps van' comment! :lol: Ok you are being a gr8 help here 'MK7 user' so thanks very much. :D

I here what yer saying with regards to throwing more money at a 15 year old van, but i'm willing to give it a try so i am gonna have the fuel solenoid replaced and the timing checked, also we'll inspect the chain guide rails and determine which type of cam chain tensioner is currently fitted. Is there a tensioner that is better than all the rest I wonder?

Hafta say I like me ole MK6 :!:
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby MK7 user » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:22 pm

Alright buddy. :)

You've got an old van that for the most part does what you want & you like it....you've probably even become attached to it, nothing wrong with that, there will be dozens upon dozens of other forum members in the same position. 8)

Now comes the BUT....I would urge you to consider your options before doing anything :!:

I can think of at least two good examples in the forum archives of how NOT to resolve a problem with your van....

1. A guy with a Mk6 125ps chimed in to tell us what a pile of shat a 125ps Mk6 is, Ford are a gang of prats for even designing the van & the local dealership know everything about every van ever produced but nothing about a 125ps. He changed the fuel pump & Injectors convinced it would solve his lack of power issue, but the van remained a pile of donkey poo. After several rants & much money spent he replaced the inlet manifold & it solved his problem....oh dear, lots of lolly spent on parts he didn't need. :twisted:

2. A guy with a late model Mk6 115ps spent several weeks blindly chasing his tail trying to resolve a starting issue....he claimed to be a competent mechanic but never felt the need to prove a component was defect before replacing it....he spent several thousands urinating in the wind. :shock:

So I think the way forward would be to find a local guy who knows transits & will give you some good advise & direction without pulling your pants down over the price. 8)

Another thing that comes to mind is the fact that an engine remap can overcome some of the gearing problems....that way you wouldn't need to change the axle if the engine is running sweet & pumping out more torque....something like up the 120ps to 145ps (or so) & the corresponding increase in torque pulls the 5.13 gearing better. :idea:

DO NOT ever....never ever, have an engine that is not running 100% remapped :!:

Be careful....there are sharks out there. :mrgreen:
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:04 am

MK7 user wrote:Alright buddy. :)

You've got an old van that for the most part does what you want & you like it....you've probably even become attached to it, nothing wrong with that, there will be dozens upon dozens of other forum members in the same position. 8)

Now comes the BUT....I would urge you to consider your options before doing anything :!:

I can think of at least two good examples in the forum archives of how NOT to resolve a problem with your van....

1. A guy with a Mk6 125ps chimed in to tell us what a pile of shat a 125ps Mk6 is, Ford are a gang of prats for even designing the van & the local dealership know everything about every van ever produced but nothing about a 125ps. He changed the fuel pump & Injectors convinced it would solve his lack of power issue, but the van remained a pile of donkey poo. After several rants & much money spent he replaced the inlet manifold & it solved his problem....oh dear, lots of lolly spent on parts he didn't need. :twisted:

2. A guy with a late model Mk6 115ps spent several weeks blindly chasing his tail trying to resolve a starting issue....he claimed to be a competent mechanic but never felt the need to prove a component was defect before replacing it....he spent several thousands urinating in the wind. :shock:

So I think the way forward would be to find a local guy who knows transits & will give you some good advise & direction without pulling your pants down over the price. 8)

Another thing that comes to mind is the fact that an engine remap can overcome some of the gearing problems....that way you wouldn't need to change the axle if the engine is running sweet & pumping out more torque....something like up the 120ps to 145ps (or so) & the corresponding increase in torque pulls the 5.13 gearing better. :idea:

DO NOT ever....never ever, have an engine that is not running 100% remapped :!:

Be careful....there are sharks out there. :mrgreen:



Yes so far i have only replaced the oil and filter, air filter and fuel filter. I also removed the inlet manifold and really went to town degreasing / cleaning it out and then inspecting the internal passages with a bore scope to ensure it was spotless, i also cleaned up the EGR valve and blanked it.

I also removed the inter-cooler and degreased that and it's 2 large hoses as they were a bit oily. I can't see any split hoses that would cause an air leak and a subsequent loss of ooomph.

The chap i use is a very good general mechanic but HE DOES NOT specialise in Transits, he has worked on my pickup truck, wood chippers, wifes car, etc and he seems adept at fixing anything from cars, farm machinery to motorbikes etc. we really rate him, plus at £20 per hour plus VAT he is cheap.

He loves a challenge so i reckon he'll relish the thought of checking the timing is setup correctly and the condition of the chain and guides, and establishing which version of cam chain tensioner is fitted along with replacing the timing solenoid. I have no intention of replacing the injectors and diesel pump unless they are deemed excessively worn and 'unfit'.

I have a feeling the timing solenoid is part of the problem with regards to 'low power' and the timing may also out by a tooth or two but we shall see.

I have driven alot of transits over the last few years (MK6's and MK7's), although some were lowly 90 & 100 ps models and some were 115's and 140's and they all from memory felt much better to drive than my transit in terms of acceleration and outright grunt whilst loaded up or towing so i'm certain that 'throwing some money' at my van is worth while.

(ps. I won't consider a remap unless the van is running tip top, but then i may not need it if my investigations and expenditure bare fruit)

Yet again thanks for the support and advice !!
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby MK7 user » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:41 pm

Alright buddy. :)

What I was trying to do further up the page was to give you some idea of the common problems on a Mk6. The facts are that if the timing solenoid were totally knackered the engine would sound like an old black cab & the glow plug lamp should be flashing to indicate there is a stored code. :wink:

You need to run your plan of attack by someone who knows the Mk6's as to how you are going to test key components & determine that they are within expected parameters or need replacing....I can see your pocket running dry before your mate looses his enthusiasm for earning it. :wink:

There should be a least a couple of threads in the forum archives with pictures & a part number of the upgraded chain tensioner....the search tool is your friend. 8)
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:22 am

MK7 user wrote:Alright buddy. :)

What I was trying to do further up the page was to give you some idea of the common problems on a Mk6. The facts are that if the timing solenoid were totally knackered the engine would sound like an old black cab & the glow plug lamp should be flashing to indicate there is a stored code. :wink:

You need to run your plan of attack by someone who knows the Mk6's as to how you are going to test key components & determine that they are within expected parameters or need replacing....I can see your pocket running dry before your mate looses his enthusiasm for earning it. :wink:

There should be a least a couple of threads in the forum archives with pictures & a part number of the upgraded chain tensioner....the search tool is your friend. 8)


Ok I have found some of your replies on this subject :!: I reckon i'll simply ask my mechanic to check the timing and we'll see about fitting the upgraded tensioner and replace any worn guides etc. I do wonder if we should just replace the timing chain whilst 'we're in there' ?

I will hold off on the fuel timing solenoid till we have actioned the above and report back.

My engine sounds fine in my opinion and the glow plug lamp does not flash up to indicate a stored code.

I'm getting excited now :!: :lol:
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby MK7 user » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:02 am

wicklabilly wrote: I'm getting excited now :!: :lol:


Oh christ, I'm starting to get worried. :mrgreen:

Since you don't know the history of it I'd be pulling the timing cover with the intention of fitting a complete new timing kit....have a look at previous threads, there is a reason why some will only fit genuine ford parts. :shock:
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:56 am

MK7 user wrote:
wicklabilly wrote: I'm getting excited now :!: :lol:


Oh christ, I'm starting to get worried. :mrgreen:

Since you don't know the history of it I'd be pulling the timing cover with the intention of fitting a complete new timing kit....have a look at previous threads, there is a reason why some will only fit genuine ford parts. :shock:



oky doky mate i'll get reading. Cheers Ken
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:49 pm

MK7 user wrote:
wicklabilly wrote: I'm getting excited now :!: :lol:


Oh christ, I'm starting to get worried. :mrgreen:

Since you don't know the history of it I'd be pulling the timing cover with the intention of fitting a complete new timing kit....have a look at previous threads, there is a reason why some will only fit genuine ford parts. :shock:



Ok been busy and not had time to do anyting bout the timing kit yet. I need to have a search and a read afore i order any parts and get my mechanic on it.
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:19 pm

Ok Fuel timing solenoid fitted today and it hasn't livened up the motor at all really, however it does appear to run smoother now.

We de-catted the exhaust which made a great improvement. Complete cam chain timing kit being fitted tomorrow. :D
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:23 am

Full Timing chain kit done including all the sprockets, guides and a new tensioner. Looks like the original chain, tensioner and guide had some wear which was visible on the old parts. Oil & Filter changed.

It had the older style tensioner as fitted to the pre 2003 transits and the timing was spot on, we fitted the same type of tensioner again. My engine feels and sounds smoother and a bit quieter too.

It may look as though all this expense has 'bore no fruit' and the only performance 'gains' have been the result of gutting the CAT but at least now I have some service history!

I'll use it for a few weeks and consider my next move which may involve having the fuel pump and injectors tested / replaced, then possibly a postal remap.
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby MK7 user » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:01 pm

wicklabilly wrote:
It had the older style tensioner as fitted to the pre 2003 transits and the timing was spot on, we fitted the same type of tensioner again.


:shock: ....Alright buddy, the Old Style is known to fail & the timing chain jumps a tooth or three....that's what the modified tensioner is for. :wink:

You said further up the page you've cleaned the Intercooler, so it's obviously not blocked, can your man rig up a test gauge & check you are not loosing boost pressure through a leaking Intercooler or the pipe work :?:

Is the turbo actuator free....the pressure gauge used above will tell if it's within spec.

I recall having a PCM update on the company supplied van I had, there have been a few gremlins in one or two calibrations & it's straight forward if your man has the kit.

If I recall correctly, it's possible for the electronic throttle peddle to be out of range without throwing a diagnostic code....here's a link to a workshop manual to check some specs....your man should be advising you about checking the fuel pressure & injector leak off before dropping too much Drakmar on things you don't need. :wink:

Link :arrow: http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/transit_2000.5_01.2000-05.2006/mechanical_repairs/3_powertrain/303_engine/303-00_engine_system_general_information/diagnosis_and_testing/engine/
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby mnxtrany » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:26 pm

MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:54 am
Hello all. Me transit tipper tows an 850kg wood chipper, lots of kit and usually 2/3 men plus anything up to 2 Ton on the rear.

On the 3.5 Iveco double cab tipper double rear wheel the payload is about 0.9 tonne.
The weight of the double cab, the tipper body etc, the double rear wheels and a few other things are decucted from the 3.5 max.

The transit van 3.5 with luton back and tail lift has a payload of about 1.3 tonne.

Seems your well over the payload for the transit tipper.
Your trailer weight also needs to be accounted for re handling/braking/towing.
If it's a single axle trailer there'll be weight on the tow hitch/on the towing vehicle.
Ford Transit, 3.5, Mk6, 2.4 (90PS) 88.76 HP Duratorq DI diesel, 2000 Luton back, Tail lift, MWB, DRWD.
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Re: MK6 2.4 5 speed, Rear diff 5.13

Postby wicklabilly » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:54 am

MK7 user wrote:
wicklabilly wrote:
It had the older style tensioner as fitted to the pre 2003 transits and the timing was spot on, we fitted the same type of tensioner again.


:shock: ....Alright buddy, the Old Style is known to fail & the timing chain jumps a tooth or three....that's what the modified tensioner is for. :wink:

You said further up the page you've cleaned the Intercooler, so it's obviously not blocked, can your man rig up a test gauge & check you are not loosing boost pressure through a leaking Intercooler or the pipe work :?:

Is the turbo actuator free....the pressure gauge used above will tell if it's within spec.

I recall having a PCM update on the company supplied van I had, there have been a few gremlins in one or two calibrations & it's straight forward if your man has the kit.

If I recall correctly, it's possible for the electronic throttle peddle to be out of range without throwing a diagnostic code....here's a link to a workshop manual to check some specs....your man should be advising you about checking the fuel pressure & injector leak off before dropping too much Drakmar on things you don't need. :wink:

Link :arrow: http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/transit_2000.5_01.2000-05.2006/mechanical_repairs/3_powertrain/303_engine/303-00_engine_system_general_information/diagnosis_and_testing/engine/



Hi MK7 User, Thanks for the linkage.

The Cam chain tensioner part number we fitted is 1138760 so i think that's the modified one. The waste gate actuator is free as we had a look at that, is that the same as the turbo actuator you mention above?

What is a PCM update :?: :? :D

Interesting comment re. the electronic throttle pedal, you got anymore info on that one? I'll do some more digging online.

I did wonder if my van was restricted in some way as i'm fairly certain it's an ex council wagon ?

Thanks for the pointers too MNXTRANY.
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