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MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a bit

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MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a bit

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:17 am

HELLO Transiteers. Help. Any advice to point me in right direction to diagnose this just before i have to take it in.

MK7 2008, 2.2, 110, FWD,

Was going ok until i didn't use it for a week. It started Great, but then cutout 5 seconds later, and then it won't start. To get going that time i turned it over maybe 20times before it reluctantly started, i kept revs up and was off. Thought it was just cold so 30mins later stopped, switched it off thinking it would start again. Nope.

If its left for about an Hour or more, it will start up again first time easily. (if keep revs up for first 3mins it can be kept going and can even return to idle without constant revs and without cutting out) If its left to tick over just after startup is stutters and cuts out (sounds like no fuel or air getting in.)

I checked Oil and it was really low (not empty tho just below lowest mark.!!), was fine not very long back so either i have forgotten or its burning up more than usual. Topped up, it took about 1l. The fuel filter had a bit of water in it when drained off, and the clear pipe has some air in it. i have a new fuel filter ready to go on but wont be able to remove all air bubbles from pipe.

There has been no EML on.

Had a new EGR 3 or 4yrs ago, just wouldnt go then and this feels like a similar thing but not quite fully wont go. I unplugged the electric lead on this EGR just now while not running engine to hopefully leave it closed to isolate and test if this is issue. It hasn't solved it. But there was a nice big stutter and good bit of smokey exhaust for a quick blast on a startup after. Doesnt do it now but there was now on my last startup a horrid knocking in the engine as it stutters starting or trying to keep running, sounds pretty rough but clears if i rev it more or less. and then seems to go after first minuet or 2.

Arrrh. and now this morning its starts Easy and ticks over OK (tiny bit rough sounding) but doesn't cut out, adn stops starts fine - maybe it is teh EGR which is still disconnected. i hate intermittence.

So far from reading here i have unconfirmed self diagnosed with Stuck EGR, Dodgy Crank Sensor, Blown PRV, Injectors and Injector clamps, and a Crank Sensor issue. cant be all surely, but Im wondering what would be best to look at and have checked first and then in what order, and if any thought on OK to take to local garage instead of ford as nearest is 30miles.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby the_big_fact_hunt » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:30 pm

where are you located? many members have code readers and could help you out with a direction to look
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:19 pm

thanks. wales but in ireland at moment im remote remote, spent hours searching for my old code reader, ordered another but will be a few days in post.!
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again INJEC

Postby redbox4wheels » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:14 pm

Hi All

im just told i need x4 new injectors, or recondition them, for the previous posts symptoms.!

Anyone know if that sounds plausible and if anyone has a good company can recommend for reconditioning. And if my local non-ford garage that has quoted me can actually do it all and do the software learn etc required. etc etc.

THANKS
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby knobby1 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:14 pm

I'd be suspecting the PRV....they don't always throw up a code. Are you able to remove it to see if it's still in one piece..?? Or at least remove the return line to see if there's a silly amount of fuel coming out at idle..??

Lord Knobrot
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When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:54 pm

thank you lord. i shall ask garage to take it out tomorrow and check it, they are not ford will they be able to fit new if its gone regards computering it in after fitting a new one. THANKS Im guessing they did a test on the injectors as they say it needs 4, could it be Both PRV and injectors.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby knobby1 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:04 pm

redbox4wheels wrote:thank you lord. i shall ask garage to take it out tomorrow and check it, they are not ford will they be able to fit new if its gone regards computering it in after fitting a new one. THANKS Im guessing they did a test on the injectors as they say it needs 4, could it be Both PRV and injectors.


If it was running ok before you parked it up for a week, I would suggest it's highly unlikely "all" the injectors have suddenly failed. When the PRV goes, it usually does it suddenly....however, it's normally the SCV which causes the PRV to blow...I'm not saying this is your issue but the symptoms point to it.

If one or both the valves are replaced, the learns will need doing and your garage will need the right kit to do it.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby bambi mk 1 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:10 pm

Where are you in Ireland :?:
Theres the good guys,theres the bad guys but there only ever be one SPEED GUY
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:02 pm

knobby1 wrote:
redbox4wheels wrote:thank you lord. i shall ask garage to take it out tomorrow and check it, they are not ford will they be able to fit new if its gone regards computering it in after fitting a new one. THANKS Im guessing they did a test on the injectors as they say it needs 4, could it be Both PRV and injectors.


If it was running ok before you parked it up for a week, I would suggest it's highly unlikely "all" the injectors have suddenly failed. When the PRV goes, it usually does it suddenly....however, it's normally the SCV which causes the PRV to blow...I'm not saying this is your issue but the symptoms point to it.

If one or both the valves are replaced, the learns will need doing and your garage will need the right kit to do it.

Lord Knobrot



THANKS, the leak back test apparently showed they were all having problems but some worse than others, no1 was better than others, no 3 was worst. Im going to get some new denso injectors sent to garage and have them fitted. Please can you tell me if i need or it would be advisable to have the PRV and SCV done at same time, they may or may not be good/bad. trying to keep a lid on costs but prefer little pain now than a lot later if worth doing what ever state they are in. CHEERS
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby knobby1 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:25 pm

redbox4wheels wrote:THANKS, the leak back test apparently showed they were all having problems but some worse than others, no1 was better than others, no 3 was worst. Im going to get some new denso injectors sent to garage and have them fitted. Please can you tell me if i need or it would be advisable to have the PRV and SCV done at same time, they may or may not be good/bad. trying to keep a lid on costs but prefer little pain now than a lot later if worth doing what ever state they are in. CHEERS


Yes..If she has a few miles on...I'd definitely do them....will possibly save a bit of grief later.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:17 pm

hi all, i finally had all injectors replaced with brand new, also replaced brand new PRV and SCV at same time. I gues garage did all teh programming and learns via their ids machine etc. apparently though it wont start until 3rd time on cold mornings and garage is now suggesting the high pressure pump could be the/an issue.

Is there anything on the Programming or Learns fior teh injectors/PRV/SCV that may not have quite worked that could effect start up.?!

Really need to get this sorted, any advice what to do check next be great, should i see a ford garage for diagnostics. Why wouldnt a high presure pump show on diagnostics.?


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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:47 pm

does this sound like it could have originally been the high pressure pump even if injectors were not 100%. sort of does to me renot feeling like fuel getting through on start up, except the fact once its been running if you stopped it could not start again, would teh high pressure pump fail from a warmed up engine.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby knobby1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:35 pm

redbox4wheels wrote:does this sound like it could have originally been the high pressure pump even if injectors were not 100%. sort of does to me renot feeling like fuel getting through on start up, except the fact once its been running if you stopped it could not start again, would teh high pressure pump fail from a warmed up engine.


If the pump was duff it would fail the pump learn part of the process and IDS will abort the rest of the learns, these Mk7 TDCi pumps rarely fail. Do you know it the SCV and PRV are genuine Ford items..? We've had issues with a lot of non-genuine valves not passing the learns. If the learns fail three successive times the PCM will often go into limp mode, I'm not suggesting this has happened, but it is a possibility...just me thinking out loud.

Also, the new injectors need "coding in" as they each have their own calibration correction factors...I would assume this has been done though.??

Lord Knobrot.
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 pm

knobby1 wrote:
redbox4wheels wrote:does this sound like it could have originally been the high pressure pump even if injectors were not 100%. sort of does to me renot feeling like fuel getting through on start up, except the fact once its been running if you stopped it could not start again, would teh high pressure pump fail from a warmed up engine.


If the pump was duff it would fail the pump learn part of the process and IDS will abort the rest of the learns, these Mk7 TDCi pumps rarely fail. Do you know it the SCV and PRV are genuine Ford items..? We've had issues with a lot of non-genuine valves not passing the learns. If the learns fail three successive times the PCM will often go into limp mode, I'm not suggesting this has happened, but it is a possibility...just me thinking out loud.

Also, the new injectors need "coding in" as they each have their own calibration correction factors...I would assume this has been done though.??

Lord Knobrot.



Hi Lord
yes genuine ford parts according to PFJones, brand new PRV/SCV and brand new injectors all from PFjones. no idea if garage done all learns and software etc correct and well but have to take their word they did. curious if not what the symptoms of it would be. how can i find out whats now at fault without just taking out and replacing new part after part after part until found.?
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby knobby1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:47 pm

redbox4wheels wrote:Hi Lord
yes genuine ford parts according to PFJones, brand new PRV/SCV and brand new injectors all from PFjones. no idea if garage done all learns and software etc correct and well but have to take their word they did. curious if not what the symptoms of it would be. how can i find out whats now at fault without just taking out and replacing new part after part after part until found.?


Ah yes...you can trust PF Jones for parts, they know their stuff.

Yes, one would imagine if the learns etc went through OK, the engine would be running well.

Does it run well after starting?? I wonder if she has a small air leak letting air in on the fuel inlet side of things causing the hard to start issue..?? The filter head, it's connectors, leak-back lines and even the line from the tank are a common place to find this sort of thing.

Lord Knobrot
2008 2.4L RWD 170+PS 6-speed 350 LWB High Roof.

When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car..!
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