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MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a bit

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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:23 pm

Jamber2166 wrote:Have you plugged in a scan tool and monitored the rail pressures at different RPM ranges? (The pressure should rise as you increase RPM) as the van begins to die? Also, don't just assume that because you've fitted new parts that you haven't been supplied with a faulty one! I've had a few injectors over the years returned as faulty. Only by examining the waveforms on a scope was I able to tell it was bad.

The garage will most likey have a scan tool that is capable of doing the injector pilot learn, SCV learn and the rail pressure valve counter reset, but I'd double check they have the equipment to do the injector coding! I have two high end scan tools and only Ford IDS allows me to code injectors!

By the way, don't go throwing parts at it without first of all diagnosing them. A quick voltage drop on the ignition switch would have ruled that out quicker than it took for you to order another one!


Would they work at all if injectors not coded.? i have same prob before and after new injectors, the old were coded def.
No im trying not to fix it by adding new parts now, already wasted money on that with new injectors and im dubious the old were not stil usable, i had a failed leakoff test and just bought new.!

Yes looked at live rail pressures and to my laymans eye they look OK. upto 20/25000 on start and ticks over about 23000, LOAD goes up loads :D adn eth rail pressure doesnt it just ten drops as van stalls.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:28 pm

v8dave wrote:The start, stall then not restart does sound like air in the fuel system but why does it then start an hour later ?
If the air is still there then it still need priming.
.


exactly.. i think Temperature and friction more so than air. if attempt to start it directly after a fail it will need to be cranked maybe 20times to point of nearly burnout of starter... If leave it 2hrs it will fire straight up again.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:35 pm

Jamber2166 wrote:
v8dave"
If compression is good, the inputs are good (cam and crank signals etc) then it only leaves fuel as the problem, other than some sort of freak timing issue that's just occured.

It's pointless asking a guy with a £10 code reader to diagnose this kind of complaint. If he's checked the basics then it's time to entrust it to a competent garage.


feels like compression is good at initial start in that it fires up in a nano second. wouldnt that mean that its held compression ok overnight. fuel could be crap but ive had problem since summer getting worse and been through several tank fulls from dif garages and new filter etc.

Yep garage.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:36 pm

THANKS everyone for all posts and info. I will confirm what the F is wrong when i find out. feel fee to place your bets on what it is.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby Jamber2166 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:56 pm

When did you get the fuel filter done, and how soon after that did you start having issues? Again, some garages have been known to intall these incorrectly!

I'm leaning more toward a fuel delivery issue. I think it's likley air in the system!

If the van was running like this before you had the injectors replaced and still runs the same then the injectors haven't solved the issue. Normally to test a fuel injectors delivery a balance test is done, either by a factory scan tool or a timer tool hooked up to the injector. The injector is then pulsed for a set period of time, milliseconds. The rail pressures will be the same at the start of the test for each injector; typical ballpark values would be no more than 1 psi difference between all 4 injectors, though some techs will be even less forgiving than that. Ideally there shouldn't be any difference at all!

The van will run without the injectors being coded but most likely not very well. The injectors have a calibration value specific to that injector that needs to be coded to the ecu in order for it to compensate for the differences between injectors.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby Jamber2166 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:27 pm

By the way, I wouldn't use a timer tool on coded injectors before someone chips in.. :lol:
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby v8dave » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:26 pm

I wonder if the alternator is not producing load for the first few seconds ?

The two low current connections on the alternator connect to the ecu, these presumably are an output monitor wire and the field excitation wire.

Try unplugging the two wire connector from the alternator and repeating your start test.
Or remove the accessory drive belt, running for a minute from cold without the water pump will be ok.

What is the ecu calibration ?
It has a number like 8C11-12K532-GH
There will be a sticker on the LH B pillar with the version it left the factory with.
You code reader should be able to tell you whats currently programmed.
We can look up the latest version available.
mk7 08reg 2.4 T350 LWB MHR RWD
mk6 X reg 2.4 T350 LWB MHR RWD - scrapped
mk4 J reg 2.5 L300 LWB MHR RWD - sold on

Notice a trend there ? not too big and not too small
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby bambi mk 1 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:03 pm

Pm your details to me and I will send you a crank sensor on Monday :wink: :) Worth a try as most times they wont show a fault .If it dosent cure it I can recommend a few options that will fix it but they are about two hours from you
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:00 pm

v8dave wrote:I wonder if the alternator is not producing load for the first few seconds ?

The two low current connections on the alternator connect to the ecu, these presumably are an output monitor wire and the field excitation wire.

Try unplugging the two wire connector from the alternator and repeating your start test.
Or remove the accessory drive belt, running for a minute from cold without the water pump will be ok.

What is the ecu calibration ?
It has a number like 8C11-12K532-GH
There will be a sticker on the LH B pillar with the version it left the factory with.
You code reader should be able to tell you whats currently programmed.
We can look up the latest version available.



Hi
PartNo - 6C11-12A650-CZ
Strategy - 6C11-12K532-BZ
Calibration - 6C11-12K532-BZ
DCU-101

not tested with alternator removed yet, gota pic to upload of a faulty connection will post below if i can sort uploading it
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:03 pm

bambi mk 1 wrote:Pm your details to me and I will send you a crank sensor on Monday :wink: :) Worth a try as most times they wont show a fault .If it dosent cure it I can recommend a few options that will fix it but they are about two hours from you


Thank you for your kind offer, it could be that as much as anything else.!! wil PM and woud be keen to know where 2hrs away, think it will get that far.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby v8dave » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:36 pm

redbox4wheels wrote:Hi
PartNo - 6C11-12A650-CZ
Strategy - 6C11-12K532-BZ
Calibration - 6C11-12K532-BZ
DCU-101

not tested with alternator removed yet, gota pic to upload of a faulty connection will post below if i can sort uploading it


Calibration 6C11 - - BZ
Is it a 2.2 litre 110 PS 5 speed with a 4.27 axle ratio ?

Calibration BX is dated 2012, Feb 23rd
BZ will be more recent by a few months.
mk7 08reg 2.4 T350 LWB MHR RWD
mk6 X reg 2.4 T350 LWB MHR RWD - scrapped
mk4 J reg 2.5 L300 LWB MHR RWD - sold on

Notice a trend there ? not too big and not too small
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:38 pm

Update:

been poking around doing wiggle tests today as no garage can fit me in for a week, and found this wire semi disconnected (as per pic)

It was hanging on by a thread... when touched it came away completely from rusting. As per image it connects the big fat red wire to the brown/blue, i guess the big red is the glowplugs.

Does the Brown go on to do anything else or is it just back.?
Bracket was just plastic (had to hack it off), can the bolt from big red reduce current from the big red to brown, because what i did was strip them back and bodge them together, i need to get a good connector or new part when i get a chance.

Spotted this and fixed before first start of the day and (usually fail). It did not fail, started and kept going (i will test again tomorrow just incase the days temp was up enough for it to not be this.)

I think it was or must have been very slightly touching/connecting because i read codes before seeing this and just had the usual:
PTO enable switch
P1293 and P1294 - Injector High Side Open

After completely disconnecting, i had extra:
P037D Glow Plugs relay Sense Circuit - signal invalid
P0190 - FRP Sensor.

Having reconnected it albeit Heathrobinson style, i still have all the above codes. tried clearing and taking it for a spin.

Still it is beter in that it started instantly and didnt cut out 8 seconds later.! whether a fluke will know tomrrow.

Took it for a spin, and it is Smokey and Smelly, bad exhust fumes. Not black. it did clear up after 5miles and a bit of heat but still smelly at end and does smell like burning oil out or unburnt fuel or a metal heat smell. not great.

Rough idle also but does come and go a bit. Wondering if the SCV learn has been done good. if you try drive off with break on to give it some stress and then let go instead of coming back to a nice idle it wants to seek/hunt/stutter, not stopping but take a hit on the accelerator to steady her. stick.

will check tomorrow the starting issue with fingers crossed, cant see it though if thats just the glow plugs though.

is it standard for nearly every bolt and nut in a transit to rust to oblivion in no time.

wheres all the Gak come from around the injectors.? had hoped when they changed them they woudl have changed the washers but 99pcnt sure they didnt, from looking at the Gak all over the big black washer at injector base.

oh Joy.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:42 pm

v8dave wrote:
redbox4wheels wrote:Hi
PartNo - 6C11-12A650-CZ
Strategy - 6C11-12K532-BZ
Calibration - 6C11-12K532-BZ
DCU-101

not tested with alternator removed yet, gota pic to upload of a faulty connection will post below if i can sort uploading it


Calibration 6C11 - - BZ
Is it a 2.2 litre 110 PS 5 speed with a 4.27 axle ratio ?

Calibration BX is dated 2012, Feb 23rd
BZ will be more recent by a few months.



Hi v8Dave
Yes 2.2 110ps 5 speed - sorry not a clue about axel.

So does that mean the PCM was last looked at and updated in 2012, would there be newer.?
Cant quite think back to 2012 why woudl have done anything then.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:43 pm

v8dave wrote:
redbox4wheels wrote:Hi
PartNo - 6C11-12A650-CZ
Strategy - 6C11-12K532-BZ
Calibration - 6C11-12K532-BZ
DCU-101

not tested with alternator removed yet, gota pic to upload of a faulty connection will post below if i can sort uploading it


Calibration 6C11 - - BZ
Is it a 2.2 litre 110 PS 5 speed with a 4.27 axle ratio ?

Calibration BX is dated 2012, Feb 23rd
BZ will be more recent by a few months.



Hi v8Dave
Yes 2.2 110ps 5 speed - sorry not a clue about axel.

So does that mean the PCM was last looked at and updated in 2012, would there be newer.?
Cant quite think back to 2012 why woudl have done anything then.
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Re: MK7 - Starts Fine, Cuts Out, then Wont Start Again for a

Postby redbox4wheels » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:46 pm

thnking out loud. if ive replaced all 4 injectors, can the seating of them and/or the seals and anything else around them (if not checked and installed properly) give a fail on a leak back test, smokey unburnt fuel or oil through. Can a fuel pump failing make it smokey/smelly - even if rail pressures look OK.
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