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Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

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Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:20 am

Ok here's the latest problem I have. I run an 07 TDCi 17 seat minibus (rwd) which is a 2.4 115ps. Years ago at 40k the EGR crapped out so I blanked it off and it's like that ever since so fault codes P0404 and P1103 are always present. The bus has a fairly easy life spending most of it's time at or around 2k rpm only occasionally reving to 3k-3.5k for a few seconds in 2nd and 3rd up 2 particular hills I drive ever day.

This morning on my way home I exited a mini roundabout in 2nd or 3rd and just above idle speed and for maybe half a second after I squeezed the throttle nothing happened then it accelerated as usual....I decided it was just my imagination. A few minutes later it did it again under the same conditions, low gear very low revs seemingly ignoring the throttle for a second then behaving normally again. Pulling out onto the main road it did it once more as I went to accelerate in 2nd it ignored all throttle demand for a second maybe 2 then behaved normally for the remaining 10 minutes of the drive home. When I got back I left it running while I grabbed the fault codes but it was just showing the usual P0404 and P1103.

The fuel filter hasn't been changed since Elvis was slim so that will be my starting point but I thought I'd check on here in case there's a common fault that causes this issue. The posts I've been able to find tend to deal with hesitation around 2.5k-3k whereas mine just ignores the throttle for a second at around 1k-1.5k. It's done around 145k in total the last 100k with the ERG blanked and it's never had this issue before and it's not throwing any other codes up so I'm at a loss.

Answers on the back of a postcard please, the winning entry will win a big bag of nowt and a feeling or superiority over his fellow man :)
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby knobby1 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:10 pm

Sounds like the dreaded duff throttle pedal, but yes, definitely fit a new fuel filter ....and a nice service wouldn't go astray.

Also, you may have grief this year at MOT time, they'll be checking for EGR function and fitment from May 20th....see here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184386

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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby ned » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:22 pm

You've never changed the fuel filter :shock: I change mine every 5k, if the fuel can't flow the van can't go :wink: N
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:58 pm

knobby1 wrote:Sounds like the dreaded duff throttle pedal, but yes, definitely fit a new fuel filter ....and a nice service wouldn't go astray.

Also, you may have grief this year at MOT time, they'll be checking for EGR function and fitment from May 20th....see here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184386

Lord Knobrot


Ye I know I got a bulletin about it from DVSA a while ago as it's a PSV so has to go to them for MOT. I've got a work around in mind though so shouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:00 pm

ned wrote:You've never changed the fuel filter :shock: I change mine every 5k, if the fuel can't flow the van can't go :wink: N


Ye I Changed the fuel filter um...erm...50k ago or there abouts....I like getting value for money :) The new filter arrives tomorrow so I'll give it a service at the weekend as the other filters have been on a shelf in my garage for a few years now lol.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:41 am

Well it's been over a month and it hasn't done it again while driving. I occasionally does it when it's 1st started if you try driving off too soon and with too little throttle but I think that's a different thing all together. I bought a new throttle pedal anyway since it's over 10 years old now and is probably due a new one.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:42 am

I forgot all about this post lol. To update it, I can say that the problem didn't go away after the fuel filter change, although the new filter certainly helped. I still have the issue only much worse these days. The general running issue is flat spots. When the bus is 1st used on a morning the flat spots aren't too bad, after 10 mins or so they become more noticeable, by the time I'm nearly back home, say 2hr later, the bus is a real pig to drive. I have to change gear in such a way as to get the revs up before I release the clutch otherwise it flat spots and refuses to build up revs unless I dip the clutch, pick up the revs then slowly slip the clutch back out...or if the revs are already high-ish say 2.5k or more then shifting up a gear and being gentle with the throttle seems to help. Today, about 2 mins from getting back home I'd had to spend a few mins crawling to a round-about due to heavy traffic. As I tried to pull away from the round-about it really bogged down and wouldn't rev past 1200rpm. I limped it off the main road onto a local road, turned it off for maybe a minute or two while I checked the fault codes (same 2 I always have relating to the egr) then restarted and off it went driving relatively ok...still a bit fiddly to drive but kept up with traffic flow no problem. I'm pretty sure that it's the prv/scv that are fooked as years ago I was messaging Loot about the rough idle I had and he suggested it was probably a knacker prv and I could try doing a pump learn and pilot reset which I did and the idle was fine again. Obviously since then things have gradually gone from bad to worse but I've adapted the way I drive it to compensate...there never seems to be a long enough stretch of time that I can have it off the road to sort it out. When it's in mid-flat spot it will often "instantly" increase in power a bit then flat spot at that level of power then "instantly" increase in power again so I doubt it's turbo issues or anything of that type as the increase in power is like a switch being turned on. It really does feel like it's a valve on the fuel side that's sticking especially since it's had symptoms of a failed prv for years so it would seem reasonable to assume that the scv has also been faulty for years as well. Yesterday on the way home from the school run I popped the blue tooth odb2 dongle in and watched the fuel rail pressure using torque and it was all over the place and followed exactly the pattern of every flat spot, so hopefully that confirms the PRV/SCV as the culprit????

I have a school holiday at the end of October so that gives me 2 weekends and 5 weekdays where I don't need it on the road. I have new prv/scv and an egr in the garage (I have done for years lol) but they're not genuine!! Can anybody recommend an online source for a genuine ford prv and scv...also how much should I be paying for them. I'm not worried too much about the egr as it's a psv 1st used before July 2008 so it's exempt from that part of the MOT. Before the school holiday I'll do a leak off test and see what state the injectors are in as the bus must be close to 200k now on the original injectors lol. Having said that, with all it's issues and spending all it's time on country lanes climing up very steep hills and stopping and starting collecting/dumping passenger, it still manages 32mpg and never has a hint of soot or smoke so it's doing well considering it weighs 2800kg without passenger onboard!

So...what would be the best method of attack?

Start with a leak off test and replace injectors as required.
Then replace the PRV/SCV, prv counter reset, pump reset and pilot learn.
Then, if I have time, change the erg.

If I do have to change injectors is it worth making sure it starts and drives before going onto the next step of PRV/SCV so that I know I have them coded in properly or could the fooked PRV/SCV knacker the new injectors by running them over pressure?

Also I haven't used ids for years so I have no idea where these functions are...can anybody shed some light on that as well please.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby daraioj » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:30 pm

I'd personally start with the SCV. It's just a plug and two screws. It doesn't take long at all. Then a pump learn and if the problem was the scv you'll notice the difference straight away.

Then you can test the prv and do the leak off test when you've got more time.

I got my Denso scv from Amazon. I'm in Spain though. If I was in the UK I'd probably go for pfjones.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby Antomac » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:29 pm

Just check your egr blanking plate first. Plate could be burned through. Might be the duff egr causing the problem.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:02 pm

daraioj wrote:I'd personally start with the SCV. It's just a plug and two screws. It doesn't take long at all. Then a pump learn and if the problem was the scv you'll notice the difference straight away.

Then you can test the prv and do the leak off test when you've got more time.

I got my Denso scv from Amazon. I'm in Spain though. If I was in the UK I'd probably go for pfjones.


Thanks for the reply. If I do as you say and just start by changing the SCV do I need to do any of the pump reset / pilot learn stuff or just get in and drive? I'll have a look at this pf jones as I've noticed it mentioned a few posts I;ve been reading.

Cheers

Rich
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:07 pm

Antomac wrote:Just check your egr blanking plate first. Plate could be burned through. Might be the duff egr causing the problem.


years ago I took the EGR off, wound it shut and refitted it without connecting the electrical harness so it should still be closed. I've got one on the shelf though so I may as well fit it...it's just a pain in the arse to fit on RWD vans... can't get to it from above...can't get to it from underneath lol. Although I seem to remember when I had the gearbox and starter off it looked accessible from underneath with the starter out of the way???
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby daraioj » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:59 pm

supadik wrote:
daraioj wrote:I'd personally start with the SCV. It's just a plug and two screws. It doesn't take long at all. Then a pump learn and if the problem was the scv you'll notice the difference straight away.

Then you can test the prv and do the leak off test when you've got more time.

I got my Denso scv from Amazon. I'm in Spain though. If I was in the UK I'd probably go for pfjones.


Thanks for the reply. If I do as you say and just start by changing the SCV do I need to do any of the pump reset / pilot learn stuff or just get in and drive? I'll have a look at this pf jones as I've noticed it mentioned a few posts I;ve been reading.

Cheers

Rich
You'll need to do a pump learn which is basically calibrating the scv and you should reset the counters for the prv. (Number of times it opened and duration if I remember correctly).

Pilot learn calibrates the pre-injection at low RPM. It doesn't hurt to do it unless it fails and then you have a DTC and a light on your dash. (It deletes the learned value before starting the test) It can fail if your injectors aren't in good shape or the engine can't idle properly so again... I'd start with the scv and the pump learn.

Then you can do a leak off test and if it all looks good a pilot learn.

Hope that helps and please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby supadik » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:28 pm

Nice one thanks. I'll dig out my VCM tomorrow, I've not used it for a few years so I'd best check it still works before I start. Where in the IDS software is the pump learn? Do I do a pump reset 1st or is it all the same thing lol?

Also after changing the SCV will the injectors need bleeding or do they self bleed?

Last thing...PF Jones don't list a SCV for my van...it's an 07 plate 2.4 rwd 115 minibus (17 seat) ... does anybody have a part number??

An ebay search brings up this list claiming it's for my bushttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-FORD-TRA ... SwMNxXaWKu

Which looks like this Denso valve at PF Jones https://www.pfjones.co.uk/ford-transit- ... valve.html

Should I try and get a camera down the back of the pump and see if I can snap a pic for the part number?
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby daraioj » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:40 pm

DENSO: DCRS300260

FORD: 6C1Q-9358-AB / 1514885

FORD:

-TRANSIT MK7   2.2 / 2.4 / 3.2 TDCI   2006-2014

-TRANSIT TOURNEO  2.2 TDCI   2006-2014


Seems to me like the one on the pfjones link is the right one. I'd give them a ring though, just to double check.

Counters reset and pump learn should be under: ToolBox/Powertrain/Service Functions

And nope, can't remember having to bleed the system. Started straight away.
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Re: Mk7 2.4 rwd 115ps hesitation head scratcher :)

Postby andz327 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:05 am

ned wrote:You've never changed the fuel filter :shock: I change mine every 5k, if the fuel can't flow the van can't go :wink: N
Every 5k.....Ned thats only coz you use chip fat for fuel from yer local chippy withoot filtering the crispy bits oot

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