No fuel at filter.

[Jim Archer]

2010 2.4 140 RWD

Lost power and then stalled, it tried but wouldn't catch.

Checked the filter and it wasn't full, topped it off, cranked it with no change, filter is empty again, repeat til excess cranking fault cuts in.

There's injector pulse, crank and cam in sync when cranking, fuel pressure at the injectors - crack a union slightly and it pisses out - and rail pressure within limits (see below), PRV not passing. It'll run if you feed it WD-40.

No codes. I got excess cranking, no injector No1 due checking pulse, plus a low rail pressure which would clear briefly with a full filter. Couple of historic airflow from a boost leak, that's it.

There's not a in-tank lift pump?
Fuel level sender gone duff? and I've just run out of fuel?
Pulled the filler cap, no vacuum as far as I could tell by the roadside, didn't change anything at filter by leaving it off.

Anything obvious I've missed twixt tank and filter?

The no fault codes and everything 'appearing fine' has me a bit stumped.

Jim

[Chug]

Try putting some fuel in the tank just in case Jim, if no joy, then try a direct fuel supply to injection pump to eliminate tank and filter problems

[loot]

+1

[Jim Archer]

Yes, plan is to give it fuel at the filter and see if it runs.

Fuel gauge and miles to go sort of tally at just under 1/4, and have seemed pretty consistant up to now. But I'm sort of semi convinced it's run out.

Is there a filter on the dip tube in the tank?

Either that or the feed line is just draining back when I pull the filter.

Jim

[Chug]

There is usually a mesh strainer on the bottom of the fuel pick up pipe in the tank

DSC_0000062.jpg

[bambi mk 1]

There is usually a mesh strainer on the bottom of the fuel pick up pipe in the tank

DSC_0000062.jpg

No filter on the pickup pipe Jim but its not unknown for the sender to read wrong A Facet pump is the best option to pump the fuel up

[Jim Archer]

Hmmm .....

Well I's pullled fuel up from the tank with a primer bulb, purged the filter, there is good solid pressure to the pump and it draws from the primer bulb when cranking.

It tries, but won't catch. Thinking now I've got air at the injectors, but why is it saying rail pressure is OK?

Would low rail pressure show a fault code? I'm wondering if the rail pressure sensor is duff.

Jim

[amlav]

Try a gravity fuel feed from a plastic bottle and attach it to pump supply hose . Thinking also it could be injector related (injector stuck slightly open and compression pushing air back)....or prv ...not sure .

[ake]

One of ours shows just over a quarter when the tank is dry, but not everytime, sometimes gauge works all the way down!
Driver now refills after 450 miles regardless of what gauge says. The vans getting sold soon so I’m not bothering to fix the sender

[Jim Archer]

I'm guessing that it must have air trapped in the HP side - cranking rail pressure comes up as good, it tries, but won't catch.

Should the rail pressure be steady when cranking? As it fluctuates enough that the Elm/Forscan on phone combo can't keep track.

Is there a sneaky trick to bleeding the HP side? Or a way of tricking the ECU into holding the rail pressure. How do they do it with a virgin system.

Finally, do filter heads give trouble on these late Euro4s? Be a bit of a pisser to get it running only for it to empty the filter again.

Jim

[Jim Archer]

Thought to put a clear line in the leak-off return, and there's was a lot of bubbles coming though that weren't coming from the filter.

Shipped the Old Girl off to the diesel specialists (PB Asher) and they are basically just worn out and leaking. I mentioned I'd not long had Vantuner do the learns, re-map, and take the 70 limiter off, and he replied it's the limiter taken off that sort of finished them off, they've done 250K at light load, and then I've done 3K across Europe at 90+ with possibly a tank of dodgy fuel added in for good measure. That fact he was able to describe the circumstances when they failed almost exactly does make me think he might know what he's at

What he couldn't explain was why the EML hadn't logged an issue as the injectors are all leaking back way over limits - according to his test rig. I'm guessing it just passed the learns and then got to the point where the leak-off flow exceeded the rail pressure requirements and it shuts down due to thinking there's a HP leak(?)

Jim

[loot]

Jim the injectors maintain the same pressure, they work multiple times each cycle and if the garage are suggesting that driving faster than 70 has caused them undue stress and stain then in my opinion I think that's nonesense.

Engine revs are separate from vehicle speed so 1st gear would be more revs than 6th and based on that logic the engine would have exploded years ago.

sh*t fuel blocks the injector nozzles and the internals of the injectors which causes leak back, more so than internal wear.

Cr injectors have the solenoid actuation which makes them more reliable to injecting specific quantities.

The denso ones don't like sh*t fuel or poor quality filters (larger than 2 micron).

Air bubbles shouldn't be in the return unless there's a leak somewhere. However, if your injectors are knackered then they want replacing anyway but look in the fuel filter for any signs of metal etc.

There maybe other opinions.

[Jim Archer]

Genuine Ford filter at 251K, injector seals done, full service. Shortly after, Martyn did the SCV and PRV, plus learns and re-map. It then got thraped to Romania and back full of bikes and shite. Being a ex-courier 140ps it's spent it's life cruising around limited to 70.

This trip was the first time in a year of ownership that I had to hold the pedal to the floor in 6th due to the hills/speeds, so it was working harder than it ever has before.

Maybe I got a dodgy filter(?)

The guys I've taken it to are the local Denso agents (and do all our power unit/source system stuff) and had all the bits to refurb the injectors on the shelf - his opinion was the internals were nothing unusual for the mileage, but was surprised they'd passed the learns 7Kish ago which made him suggest shite getting through recently.

If I'd been presented with it, I'd have said knackered injectors, but knowing it had not long passed the learns threw me a bit, so never thought to check til I saw how much was coming from the injectors when cranking - had previously assumed it was mostly the pump by-passing.

If it is crap that's done it, hopefully the pump will test OK, not that they are too expensive on this one.

Jim

[bambi mk 1]

Geranium diesel is the likley culprit Jim

[Jim Archer]

Is that a bit like Sunflower diesel, but more smelly?

Jim