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Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

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Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:53 am

Hi,

I'm Ben. This is my first post and first van experience.

We're planning to move from the UK to France and I was looking to buy a Ford Transit Luton van to do the move ourselves.

3 weeks ago, I bought a 02 reg Ford Transit Luton 2.4 350L 90 BHP with ~80,000 miles on Ebay from a dealer who advertised to have 3 months warranty on all vehicles in their classified Ebay ad.
Their Ebay ad had showroom 360' pictures of the van, no faults advertised, low mileage.
Van looked ok to me when seeing it, no obvious rust, engine and all looked clean, then test driving it did not feel that bad for a big van, just thought it was a bit sluggish.
When I got to sign the paperworks, I noticed it said "for spares or repair" and asked why.
The dealer said that it was because of its age they never offered any warranty on anything older than 10 years, that the message about warranty on Ebay was just their standard policy and it didn't apply here, but otherwise the van had been thoroughly checked.
They provided the HPI checks and an RAC report which shown "Check no visible oil leak = Needs attention" and with an additional note saying "Clutch feels hard".
It got my attention and I asked about it, which kind of got discarded by the dealer saying something like "old vehicles leak and clutch can feel hard, just keep a bottle of oil on the trip", I couldn't see any obvious oil leak so I didn't think of anything major. We discussed my plan to drive long distance loaded with furniture, etc. They said this was a great runner and a lot of van for the money (2,000GBP) which at that point I agreed.
I left a deposit after seeing the van, signed their paperwork and agreed to pick it up 3 days later on a Saturday.
A day before picking it up they rang saying the van had broken down on them and it was injector related. Their sales guy rang me saying they will fix it for free, that it would have costed me several 100 quid to fix.
It felt like they did me a massive favour. The guy said they want to make it right so we don't have any issue on our long trip (~1,000 miles).

Anyway, when I got it back home then had it looked at by a mecanic. They found the turbo had been disconnected to hide some other symptom, there was oil contamination in the water system, possibly a cracked cyclinder or gasket, clutch has pretty much had it, and the injectors repair the dealer had done was quite poor... our local mecanic found the injector hoses installed were plastic rather than metal apparently (i don't know what it should be myself) and that it could even be a fire hazard.

So right now, I'm trying to get that van back to the dealer but they won't have a refund. They are pushing back saying it was sold for scrap and repair... which isn't at all the impression I got.
The legal process to have them take the van back and refund it will be a long one and I need a working van for July which will have to be fit to drive to France...
I'd like to have an expert advice on what is going on with that van to see if the engine is fixable or needs a whole new one, because our local garage seem to think it would be cheaper to find a whole new engine, turbo and clutch. They don't even want to attempt fixing the existing engine... I had planned some budget for repairing the van because I knew it would have some stuff to fix, but didn't anticipate it would cost at least another another 2k for a new engine, etc.
If it can be repaired without changing the engine, then I just strech the budget and go ahead with it to avoid a potentially long legal process which I may not win... not entirely sure if I'm within my rights to return it...
When driving, it only feels a bit sluggish to me, no misfire or big smoke, it's pretty smooth to drive just has no acceleration (max speed about 65mph), I thought there may have been a RPM and speed limiter, and other than that it's in good shape.

If the engine is really knackered then I have probably been completely ripped off by the dealer... and got to continue that process with them. I bought this for personal use and not as trade, so wondering if consuming rights apply. The dealer did offer to take the van to their mechanic and pass on the repair bill for me to pay at trade price, but the fact they made that poor repair and lied about the condition of the engine, I just don't trust them now.

What do you think of the situation I'm in? Shall I try fixing that van (could put another grand or so in it) or try to get a refund through legal process.
I don't want to sell it on and pass the blame to someone else... or shall I just cut my losses and sell it even cheaper as scrap detailling all the real issues known?

Is there someone near Surrey or South East here who could have a proper look at it?

I believe this is a Duratorque 2.4l Di engine.

Cheers,
Ben

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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby ABA » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:23 pm

tecnicaly if your receite says sold as spares or repairs you haven't got a leg to stand on
a car dealer in leeds did the same to my wife when she purchased a car didn't check the receipt
when she got home gave me the receipt saying the same sold as spares or repairs but when she
picked it up nothing was said about being spares or repaires luckly the car was allright or ide
have took it back and stuck it where the sun don't shine
so the best thing if you purchase anything allways check the receite befor sighning it
as you've got it off ebay what did they put when advertising it if nothing was put about spares or repairers get in touch with ebay
and did you pay through paypal if yes you have a chance of getting your moneyback
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby twin--turbo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:45 pm

Sell it for £1k and buy something else for £2-3K. don't have the hassle of an engine swap that may go wrong.

TT
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:26 pm

ABA wrote:tecnicaly if your receite says sold as spares or repairs you haven't got a leg to stand on
a car dealer in leeds did the same to my wife when she purchased a car didn't check the receipt
when she got home gave me the receipt saying the same sold as spares or repairs but when she
picked it up nothing was said about being spares or repaires luckly the car was allright or ide
have took it back and stuck it where the sun don't shine
so the best thing if you purchase anything allways check the receite befor sighning it
as you've got it off ebay what did they put when advertising it if nothing was put about spares or repairers get in touch with ebay
and did you pay through paypal if yes you have a chance of getting your moneyback


The invoice does state "for spares or repair" but the Ebay ad said 3 month warranty and no mention at all of it being sold for spares.
The Ebay ad was posted as classified ad, no bidding, just a fixed price, and I noticed Ebay mention they don't offer buyer protection on these types of ads...
I do have a capture of the original Ebay ad as proof. The fact that it had 3 months warranty is the main reason I went to see it straight away, then got conned by their sales guy turning things around...
Apparently, it is a known trick I fell right into... https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/spares-or-repair-dodgy-trader-tricks/
I do understand that a dealer needs to be able to sell vehicles for spares and repair without having people coming back complaining about them, but shouldn't they advise of the type of issues to the best of their knowledge? At least the obvious stuff, I mean oil in the water system is quite an easy thing to spot for a garage (feeling like an idiot for not checking myself...) and also here I explained what I needed it for, they gave me the impression that it had been completely checked and had this RAC report. They did do a repair before I took it saying "to make it right for you to drive to France"... and now reading what spares and repair really mean from that article link above, they shouldn't have even offered a test drive on public road, and even less let me drive away without telling me to take it away on the back of a lorry. I just shown them my tax and insurance i'd prepared the day before, and drove it away without any complaint from them.

Still contemplating that I should get a second garage opinion on the amount of repairs needed.
If the engine still runs and has only done 80k miles, can it really be that bad to fix?
Couldn't a gasket or cyclinder head be replaced, water and oil circuits cleaned/refilled, turbo added (second hand), injectors hoses replaced, for a reasonable amount at a decent garage (not at ford for sure)
Is it that once they open the engine they might find other even more serious issues, and would rather not touch, hence saying to replace the whole engine?

Thanks for your responses!
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:29 pm

twin--turbo wrote:Sell it for £1k and buy something else for £2-3K. don't have the hassle of an engine swap that may go wrong.

TT


Yeah, I may end up doing that.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby RustWidow » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:31 pm

You could maybe lodge a complaint via eBay for misrepresentation in the ad. Saying it’s a standard ad is no excuse and could be viewed as fraud. Have a word with your local trading office.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby ned » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:46 pm

RustWidow wrote:You could maybe lodge a complaint via eBay for misrepresentation in the ad. Saying it’s a standard ad is no excuse and could be viewed as fraud. Have a word with your local trading office.


+1 on that 2k for a van that they knew was faulty seems a lot for spares or repairs. N
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:52 am

RustWidow wrote:You could maybe lodge a complaint via eBay for misrepresentation in the ad. Saying it’s a standard ad is no excuse and could be viewed as fraud. Have a word with your local trading office.


I called Ebay this morning and reported the seller. Their fraud department will be looking into it.
Planning to raise it to trading standards on Monday.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I feel that this is not a technical discussion anymore, possibly not in the right part of the forum now.
I still wonder if these engines are worth fixing. Will I open a can of worm trying to fix the visible bits?
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:54 am

Here's the Ebay ad I managed to retrieve: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgWiqEqAryJfgdc9DDmyKct06OmEpA
It does say 3 months warranty on all vehicles, then further down that it doesn't apply to vehicles sold for spares or repair, but "for spares or repair" was never mentionned for this vehicle in the ad...
Going to keep pushing and get a sollicitor to review. Don't want to let them get away with it.
The van engine seem to only have maybe 100 miles left in it before it fails. Shouldn't have paid 2k. They must have known about all the major issues even if they said they didn't.
If it was sold for scrap then they shouldn't have let me drive away with it.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby Airthies » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:25 pm

A few things from the technical side don't add up. Maybe just a Chinese whispers affect.

Plastic pipes on the injectors?
1. The injector pipes are steel and there is no plastic that I know would handle the injection pressures in the system (i doubt it's this)
2. Leak off pipes are plastic as there only taking exsess fuel back to tank.
Pipes to and from injection pumps are also regularly plastic as they are also low pressure.
What was the bodge injector fix they had done.

The turbo is disconected????
What part of the turbo is disconnected?



If it's got good oil pressure, it starts and runs ok, then a replacement turbo and sorting the clutch would be better than trying to replace an entire unknown engine with the risk of other hassles that come with it.





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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby davyjcb » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:53 pm

Plastic,or rather braided high pressure pipes are available for fuel injectors they are only supposed to be used for emergency situations when a steel pipe has fractured and the vehicle/piece of equipment is broken down in a place where it would need moved quickly. They come in various lengths and have Cable ties fitted you disconnect the fractured pipe bend the ends away from the injector and the pump fit the flexi and use the cable ties to fix it to the bad original pipe. They are not rated,and can not be used for common rail fuel systems and when fitted should be replaced asap with the correct pipe
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby benzji31 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:38 pm

Thanks gents

I will check on that and take some pictures.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby Mad Husky » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:48 pm

Trading standards and distance selling act gives you some rights. Also false advertising.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby scas » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:19 pm

Airthies wrote:A few things from the technical side don't add up. Maybe just a Chinese whispers affect.

Plastic pipes on the injectors?
1. The injector pipes are steel and there is no plastic that I know would handle the injection pressures in the system (i doubt it's this)
2. Leak off pipes are plastic as there only taking exsess fuel back to tank.
Pipes to and from injection pumps are also regularly plastic as they are also low pressure.
What was the bodge injector fix they had done.

The turbo is disconected????
What part of the turbo is disconnected?



If it's got good oil pressure, it starts and runs ok, then a replacement turbo and sorting the clutch would be better than trying to replace an entire unknown engine with the risk of other hassles that come with it.





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agree with this, also any time ive tried to run a transit with no turbo,it will eventually get to 15mph after 54 miles.
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Re: Need advice on Mk6 bought on Ebay

Postby Graham1967 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Hi,

I would suggest you take a look here

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

In 2007 that van had 151,000 miles on the clock.

Been some tampering. The dealer should not of sold you it at that price.

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