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T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

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T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby hackmagic » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:40 pm

Hi,

I was hoping to purchase a 2004 Transit RWD chassis cab. This is a T135 model, the first high power and torque one with an upgraded 6 speed gearbox and DMF apparently.

It has had a solid mass flywheel conversion approx 7K (@53K) and 1 year ago.

After 6 months the prop centre bearing had to be replaced. The gearbox has oil leaks at front and back, though not serious and which i assume are from the seals due to increased vibration. The engine has some oil round and above the sump (see photo) though i'm not sure of the cause. There is a chirping from the front of the engine though of course this could be the belt etc. I have also attached 2 photos of the engine from the off and near side of the bay.

The rest of the van, top and bottom are pretty spotless and look like it has almost never left the garage. It drives fine without any unusual sounds except the chirping, though i have not had the van above 50mph.

If i purchase i will immediately replace the SMF with a DMF. I am concerned that the installation of the SMF has caused damage to engine/gearbox. Would anyone have any advice based on the above info? I am assuming that the new clutch installation will allow the gearbox leaking to be solved during in the process.

Many thanks for your time and help.


Peter
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby Jay2018 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:35 pm

While you have the gearbox out, changing the crankshaft seal might fix the leak between the engine and gearbox, not sure about the other end.

Your second pictures shows your Turbo leaking oil? Turbo seals might be buggered, turbo might be on it's way out. You should check the turbo because you haven't mentioned the oil there. The oil could be leaking down the engine and making it look like you have other leaks elsewhere...
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby knobby1 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:45 am

Jay2018 wrote:Your second pictures shows your Turbo leaking oil? Turbo seals might be buggered, turbo might be on it's way out. You should check the turbo because you haven't mentioned the oil there. The oil could be leaking down the engine and making it look like you have other leaks elsewhere...


Turbo oil supply line could be leaking where it joins the turbo and just dribbling down.....worth checking at least.

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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby hackmagic » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:30 pm

Thanks for the replies Jay2018 and Lord Knobrot.

I did include the picture in case someone picked up on the oil leak there, i wasn't sure what that component was tbh. The picture with the sump is on the other side of the engine (as i'm sure you know) so i didn't think the leaks were related. I'll check if i go for a second viewing. Elsewhere people have mentioned that the mk6 T135 was very unreliable so i am kind of concerned i'd be in for problems if i did take it.
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby Jay2018 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:48 pm

From solely what I have read on this forum I have found that the 135 MK6 is known to be unreliable, I suppose if it was running right it would be a beast. I know there are master mechanics on here that would buy that van and fix everything wrong with it and give it the attention it needs.

Do you need the van on the road immediately? Is it going to affect your livelihood if it gives up the ghost as soon as you have paid for it? Are you confident enough to buy this van with all those oil leaks, as nice as a 135 sounds? Are you willing to save money and fix what it needs yourself? Will you have to fork out for a proper diesel mechanic to fix the problems? Will it be cheaper for you to spend a bit more and buy a van with less serious faults or no faults or a newer van, possibly MK7? I wouldn't buy this van just because there seems to be oil everywhere and I'm no way confident enough to do certain jobs, I know my limitations and I can't afford to buy a van and park it off and take my sweet time about fixing the problems.

You said the mileage a year ago was 53k when the flywheel was done... that is seriously low mileage for a 2004 van a year ago. I know there are vans older than 2004 with even less mileage, but it is still very low mileage for a 2004. What is the mileage now? Have you verified the mileage with the MOT history? MOT history isn't a fool proof way of knowing the mileage as one could do 20,000 miles plus in a year and then get the MOT centre to record the miles with 15,000 less lol and then get the clocks put back. This way MOT history is useless. If the mileage was in the 70,000 range now still seems like it has one too many issues.

The chirping sound, no idea... I think engines that have oil leaks make all sorts of strange sounds. Can you figure out where exactly the sound is coming from? Is the sound there all the time? Only when you first start and the engine is cold? Is it the sound there when it has warmed up? Does the sound only occur when you are in turbo range?
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby ned » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:00 pm

hackmagic wrote:Thanks for the replies Jay2018 and Lord Knobrot.

I did include the picture in case someone picked up on the oil leak there, i wasn't sure what that component was tbh. The picture with the sump is on the other side of the engine (as i'm sure you know) so i didn't think the leaks were related. I'll check if i go for a second viewing. Elsewhere people have mentioned that the mk6 T135 was very unreliable so i am kind of concerned i'd be in for problems if i did take it.


The mk6 135 is an early common rail (tdci) running Delphi fuel system which is known for injector and pump problems, a new pump is around 450 sovs and injectors 160+ each so bare that in mind, if you do view it again don't be shy of really pushing it, drive hard and try and find a good hill to climb, doing this will highlight any fueling issues. N
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby hackmagic » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm

Thanks ned, it has already had the injectors replaced!
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby dumper » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:22 pm

I know the 135 has a bad rep on hear and I’m not saying that people on hear are wrong but I had mine for 9 years and did 60,000 miles it it always had the correct fuel filter on it and oil change every year no matter the mileage done I got it with no service history and not 3 years old so I was not sure on actual mileage and never let me down all it had engine wise was a water pump and bearings in the fan belt idlers the alternator I think I blow up by running the engine to power the microwave and inverter the power of the 135 is great pulls like a train even when overloaded I wish my new van did drive the same I’m glad I had it but as it gave me no problems at all but if I’d seen the bad posts on hear before I got it I may have not got it someone on hear once said their no such thing as a bad van just bad owners
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby ned » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:18 am

Yes I agree Mr Dumper there is no such thing as an unreliable van just unreliable owners :P I wasn't slaggin the 135 off as I own a 125 tdci and there's just something out the mk6 tdci that those who have never owned one just don't understand :wink: I was only giving a tip to test the fuel system, if all is good in that area and the van is clean and tidy then I see no reason not to buy it. N
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby MK7 user » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:59 pm

It's nice to hear that mr dumper has had good reliability from a Mk6 135ps. :D

The fact is....there's no smoke without fire. :(

There are far too many owners visited this board with tales of woe of constant injector & pump problems on this particular model....the common consensus is that the injectors enjoy eating themselves & new pumps stutter in the fuel supply when you "gun it" at motorway speeds. :(

Vantuner was very polite in saying " the fuel system on this particular model in fragile"....most people will be a bit more blunt & say "they are a crock of shite". :x

All said & done....it's your money, your choice....it's gonna let you down & it will be expensive to put right & won't stay right for very long....fore warned is fore armed. :D

Additionally....I don't think 7k is enough mileage on a solid flywheel to do much damage....again, it's a consensus, but you need to evaluate it over 30k (ish) miles to give a realistic evaluation of what damage it can do (if any)....some will tell you it's a dog from the go, others insist there is no difference despite being able to feel a vibration through the floor that's not there with a dual mass.

Personal opinions being what they are....I'd give the 135ps a wide birth....even with a dual mass. :shock:
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby dumper » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:48 am

Yes Ned you know how bad a mk 6 tdci can be I got mine at only two and a half years old which was before all the trouble was coming up on hear when it started to be posted the problems that the tdci was giving I thought s@@t what have I done have I got myself a lot of trouble if this information had come up while I was looking I’d have then gone for a mk7 instead but saying that my mate got a 140 mk 7 the oil pump whent and he’s had injection problems that’s been on hear as it goes he has had more problems then me your right mk7 user it’s a fact that they have problems but how many tdci have never gave problems we all know that we allways here about the bad ones and not many good posts as I say if I’d seen the bad posts I’d have not got it and maybe had the same problems as my mate
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby MK7 user » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:20 pm

How-do mr dumper. :D

I think we all agree that the forum is often used by people to vent their anguish at what they find themselves saddled with....I think we all agree that the Mk6 Tddi with the Bosch pump has a 100% failure rates of the electronic 'gubbins' on the pump....despite that, having had one, I'll still maintain that the 125ps Tddi was one of the best vans ford have ever produced.

Buy one & have enough bounty in the maintenance budget for when the EDC gives up the ghost & you can't go far wrong. 8)

For all the problems a Mk7 with Denso fuel system has, and there are a few, it's still head & shoulders above any Mk6 ever made (IMHO). I think my experience with a Tddi is representative of what most people had or have....as much as I trust & respect your view on this, your experience of Mk6 Tdci ownership doesn't reflect what I see & hear elsewhere. :(

As much as I think mr ned is one of the best blokes on any forum on planet earth (have I gone far enough?) I can't agree that there is 'no such thing as an unreliable vehicle, just bad owners'....you can only do so much in the way of preventative maintenance to keep a Mk6 Tdci fuel system healthy, the unreliability in my view, is down to poor design.

The fact that the van in question is ultra low mileage (if it's correct) & has already had new injectors should give an indication of how this will 'pan out'....were the new injectors fitted by a Delphi service agent or from Honest John on eBay?

The answer to that question makes no difference....when the pump 'shits its pants' in the next couple of months (as they do) you'll need four new injectors (again) & a new pump. On a Mk6 Tddi with Bosch pump you'll be 'good to go' for thousands of miles - not so with a Mk6 Tdci. :(

If we run a forum poll, I don't doubt there will be a long list of problems relating to the ownership of a Mk6 Tddi & Mk7 Tdci, the Mk6 Tdci 135ps should have a short & to the point message....'Avoid'.

Do we get any feedback from the O.P.?
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby ned » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:48 pm

Well here you go, it is common knowledge that the early Delphi tdci pumps are sh*t and not just the ones fitted to fords, I have seen a few different vehicle makes have the same issue when using the Delphi system, its not Delphi's fault but the fact that the common rail was new technology at the time :D what I do find strange is the smaller engines don't seem to suffer with the pump problems :shock: or is it that there's not many connect tdci owner on here ?

Anyway mk7 user where have you been hiding :wink: :lol: N
RUST IS LIGHTER THEN CARBON FIBRE

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viewtopic.php?f=27&t=209987

03 transit 125t280 2.0 tdci swb 229,000 miles.
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby dumper » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:21 pm

Has I said if I’d seen no posts on hear about tdci s been bad I’d not have got it but I had it 9 years and it had been 100% I may have been lucky has it had no service history and came from a backstreet dealer so I cannot be sure the mileage was correct when l got it the only time it let me down was when I started it up in winter no problem but the battery dyed with out warning and had to be jumped off even now if someone ask me about buying a 135 I’d say no you may have problems but when you get a good one they don’t half well mine even fully overloaded stil whent like sh@t off a blanket how the hell I never got my license took off me fo speeding every time I go out in my mk8 I do miss the pulling power of the mk6 I hope when I get the diff done it will go better if not it may have to met vantuner cheers all
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1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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Re: T135 with Solid Mass Flywheel. Is it okay?

Postby MK7 user » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:04 pm

ned wrote:its not Delphi's fault but the fact that the common rail was new technology at the time :D


'WikiLeaks' should tell the world the true facts (lol).

ned wrote:Anyway mk7 user where have you been hiding :wink: :lol: N


I don't have much contact with the outside world these days....I've not been the same person since my visit to Castle Gayskull....I'm not even sure if I was actually there or if it was a dream, but I spend most of the day with tears in my eyes & suffer from flashbacks & a low self-esteem. :shock:
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