Transit MK7 2.4 Tapping Sound After Replacing Rocker Cover

[FitnessB]

Hi everyone i need some advise please.
I have just removed the rocker cover on a MK7 2.4 to fit new injector seals and one of the two downward facing plastic oil vent pipes was missing and i looked for it but couldn't find it.
The van drove great for 30+ miles but has now developed a loud tapping sound and is very difficult to start.
The injetor bolts are still tight and i'm sure its not them.
I'm worried this piece of plastic tube has caused damage and i thought i woukld ask here for advice.
I dont know if that plastic tube is small enough to get trapped in the rocker valves or fall deeper into the engine so please point me in the right direction.
I have scanned for codes and got one for incorrect camshaft timing and one for injector 2.
Also right before removing the rocker cover I've also fitted new glow plugs and while the intake manifold was off i removed and cleaned the camshaft sensor.

I don't know if a injector issue or camshaft sensor would cause such a tapping sound or if I've obviously caused damaged by losing this plastic tube because it drove great before this started.

[FitnessB]

Tomorrow i plan to check the connector on the camshaft sensor and check the number 2 injector but failing that what else would you guys check next?
If to check the timing i have to remove the timing chain cover would you first remove the rocker cover?
Also how much can be disassembled under the rocker cover looking for this plastic tube and looking for damage with upsetting the timing?

[FitnessB]

The plastic tubes i am referring to is part of the oil separator on the rocker cover and the tubes go down between the valve gear of cylinder 2 and 4.
The tube is quite large and obviously covered in oil and round in shape but even after doing some research i can't see where it could fit and cause damage if this is my problem.
I can't see why they are really necessary in the first place as with them removed the hole in its place would still allow the oil residue to drip down.
Hopefully someone will come along soon who can picture this part and what spaces it could have got into.
Otherwise maybe i do have a fuel/sensor issue and I'm looking into it to much but the taping sound is more mechanical then a fueling related knock ( i think ) but I'm really not sure.

[metalworker0]

Yes i see them

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zhoAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

Truth is i don't know ..they may just get ground up or they may do damage

Timing cover is one use only ..so you'll need a new one - looks like there are two holes into the timing section where they could escape into it.

if they fell between the chain and the tensioner guides they may have broke the guides.

The bits are likely to float in oil , so may get sucked up into the strainer

So if you are over concerned, sump will have to come off to clean strainer.

if its done a high mileage , it may be the ideal time to change the camchain.

Think these things are to support the rocker cover and make it flex less should anyone should lean on it, as it would crack without them.

Trouble is as this plastic ages it becomes brittle ..and that's what's happened.

all the best.mark

[FitnessB]

Yes i see them

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zhoAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

Truth is i don't know ..they may just get ground up or they may do damage

Timing cover is one use only ..so you'll need a new one - looks like there are two holes into the timing section where they could escape into it.

if they fell between the chain and the tensioner guides they may have broke the guides.

The bits are likely to float in oil , so may get sucked up into the strainer

So if you are over concerned, sump will have to come off to clean strainer.

if its done a high mileage , it may be the ideal time to change the camchain.

Think these things are to support the rocker cover and make it flex less should anyone should lean on it, as it would crack without them.

Trouble is as this plastic ages it becomes brittle ..and that's what's happened.

all the best.mark

Thanks for the reply Mark.

I'm looking at it today on my driveway in the cold so its not going to be fun.

So I'm thinking to remove the rocker cover first and look for any obvious signs then remove the sump unless anyone else comes along with any advice before i remove the rocker cover if thats more involved.

I don't have so much experience with this engine so don't know if this piece could even make its way to the sump because of its size so was hoping someone with experience could give me some idea of the oil passages it could fit through.
Its the rear one that is missing and the front one was barely hanging on and had also snapped off.
The plastic is quite strong and although its broke away from the thin plastic of the cover its actually quite strong as a tube and don't know if it would even break up or just be floating around still because i can't imagine the crushing forces or even exactly how the rocker ladder is working when under load.

What would be nice to know from someone is if the rocker ladder can be removed relatively easy without disturbing the timing in any way.
This would allow me to inspect it and give me a better view of where its gone maybe.

The engine has been fine the last year also with no codes for timing so this is the first time i had a timing code.

I noticed once warm the idle really isn't to bad with no obvious signs but starting from cold the whole van shakes
And hot or cold the tapping sound is really loud.

[FitnessB]

I've scanned and deleted the codes this morning and I'm now getting no timing code but i still get injector 2 restricted.
I swapped injector 1 & 2 and cleared the codes and still get injector 2 restricted..

[FitnessB]

Injector 1 also has a layer of plastic that looks burned on above the copper seal and even some on the nozzle itself..
It easily scaps away but its quite a thick layer and wasn't there when I've just cleaned and replaced them recently.

The only other thing 've done before its last drive was use a bottle of wynns turbo cleaner in the fuel tank and some wynns engine oil stop leak in the engine oil.

But this burned on plastic is really obvious and peels away like a bad paint job so now I'm wondering what else its stuck to or whats caused it.

Any ideas anyone?

[FitnessB]

I've replaced the oil and filter too and it looks like its on one end of the oil filter but its not solid its just like a paste that easily wipes off.
Also replaced the fuel filter.
I don't see how this stuff in the oil is affecting the injector though or how swapping them gives the same code.

[FitnessB]

After trying both injectors in cylinder 2 both make no difference to idle when unplugged but the other 3 do so I've atleast worked out cylinder 2 is the problem

[metalworker0]

i heard on these forums, tapping / knocking noises can come from badly sealed injectors and if they are leaking then the oil fill hole will also chuff .

They reckon some engines require re-cutting /cleaning of the seat before a new sealing washer is used
plastic melted on the injectors ,..sorry don't know, unless that tube got ground up and ended up down there

That tube you are on about may have disappeared years ago .

all the best.mark

[knobby1]

After trying both injectors in cylinder 2 both make no difference to idle when unplugged but the other 3 do so I've atleast worked out cylinder 2 is the problem

A tapping noise and no combustion on #2 may point to a poorly rocker or poor wiring to the injector. Would pay to pop rocker cover off and have a good look. Rocker ladder is independant of cams so no issue with disturbing the cam timing.

Lord Knobrot

[FitnessB]

After trying both injectors in cylinder 2 both make no difference to idle when unplugged but the other 3 do so I've atleast worked out cylinder 2 is the problem

A tapping noise and no combustion on #2 may point to a poorly rocker or poor wiring to the injector. Would pay to pop rocker cover off and have a good look. Rocker ladder is independant of cams so no issue with disturbing the cam timing.

Lord Knobrot

I run out of daylight today but did get the rocker cover off.
I had someone turn the key while i had a look but didn't see anything obvious and fuel was pumping out so i
decided to leave it until tomorrow.
Whats the best way to turn the fuel off?
Its a 2011 model.

I did notice some of those small wheels have side to side movement and others didn't but i have no experience with them so dunno whats a normal amount.
Are the rocker ladder bolts one time use stretch bolts do you know?

[FitnessB]

Would a restricted injector cause white smoke?
And would it cause knocking?
I realized today that if i unplug injector 2 the smoking completly stops and when i plug it back in i get loads of white smoke.
I removed injector 2 nozzle and i can't even blow through it or even get any brake cleaner to pass through it.
I thought the white smoke would of been excess fuel instead of fuel starvation?

[knobby1]

I run out of daylight today but did get the rocker cover off.
I had someone turn the key while i had a look but didn't see anything obvious and fuel was pumping out so i
decided to leave it until tomorrow.
Whats the best way to turn the fuel off?
Its a 2011 model.

I did notice some of those small wheels have side to side movement and others didn't but i have no experience with them so dunno whats a normal amount.
Are the rocker ladder bolts one time use stretch bolts do you know?

You could try pulling the 60amp ignition relay, #16 IIRC in the engine bay fuse box. Not sure if it will still crank though as I've not tried this myself. The 30 amp starter relay, #17 will possibly still be enabled so hopefully you'll still be able to crank the engine.

There's also two ignition relays in the fuse box behind the glove box, #61 & #62, also both 60amp I believe.

Lord Knobrot

[metalworker0]

plastic melted on the injectors ,..sorry don't know, unless that tube got ground up and ended up down there

I just watched a video ..new injectors come with plastic protection caps , and if you are in a rush it is possible to install injectors with these in place ..they are supposed to be removed and chucked away --- maybe the last person to remove them never did that ..and is only explanation how melted plastic could get on the tips.

all the best.mark