EGR Problem? Or is it? Help/knowledge requested :)

[RyanJJones]

Hi

Following on from a previous posts where a faulty EGR valve was mentioned, I've undertaken a load of reading and now have some further questions.

Sypmtoms:
=========

Twice now, at the start of a jouney (<15m) - the engine has lost all power when pulling off, so low RPM. Causing, or almost causing a stall. This has quickly cleared with a "pinking" type noise and some black smoke. Both times this has happened it happened in quick succession and then been fine thereafter.
In all other respects the engine feels like it is working perfectly.

The Engine
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The van is a Transit Mk6 FWD SWB 280 125 engine. 39,000 miles, pretty much unthrashed and gentle drivers though laiden all its life(campervan)

The EGR Valve
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I understand the EGR valve is typically closed, and opens on a vaccum to allow exhaust gas to be recombusted for emissions only. I understand MOT doesn't detect a failed/blocked valve as the RPM/vaccum isn't high enough.


Questions
==========
1 - So the EGR valve is normally closed, why would it try and open when pulling off, e.g. at low RPM? Doesn't it open at high RPM?
2 - Does the EGR stick closed or open? Why would a sticking valve cause the symptoms I had? Too much air going in? Too little? I'd expect "stick open & too much air/dirty air" being the problem, as stuck closed should just get fresh air? But why does it tick over fine and only play up when I try to pull off?
3 - Some EGRs are vaccum only, some electronic - any idea which mine is?
4 - Is the picture showing my EGR!
5 - Some people say to block off the vaccum pipe, e.g. kink & cable tie. Is mine suitable for this mod, and is the pipe the one I highlight?
6 - How easy is this to remove and clean? Any gaskets need replacing? I'd prefer to know how to just in case I need to when I'm in the middle of nowhere.
7 - If the "kink pipe" trick is applicable on my van variant, and stops the EGR working, then does it stay open or closed? And according to http://www.parkers.co.uk/advice/forum/t ... C_ID=14421 it suggests problems with it stuck either open or closed? Errrr.....
8 -Finally - any idea of replacement cost (parts/labour?)

Anyway - pics of my engine and, what I think is the EGR valve and pipe are attached below. Whilst I am a logical person and a reasonable DIYer - I've never come across EGR till the previous post.

Many thanks for your help.

[CplSmudge]

Let me be first to say that I know nothing! I'm simply a very experienced driver and the qualities that a mechanic can bring to the table far outweigh my skills.
That said, why don't you think you might have a use for a fuel additive / cleaner before you worry about all those questions? I think your questions are sub consciously telling you it isn't the EGR anyway
In case you hadn't noticed no one else has replied which tells me that you asked too many questions in one go. I agree that you're being very ecofriendly there by not wasting posts but sometimes I think this is like fishing - you gotta tempt someone first lol

[ake]

Have you had the fault codes read? it may not be egr

Yours is a vacuum egr, you can disconect/kink/block the pipe to disable it, however this will only work if the valve can actually close (ie not clogged up), if it was mine I would remove the egr, clean it out, make sure it is closed, then refit it but leave it disabled (block pipe with ball bearing and refit, so it still looks proper, gaskets should be okay, and should take around an hour

[RyanJJones]

Thanks for replies. Good to know erg is vacuum only. Is my pic showing the egr as I think?
No bait on this post though I can post some porn if I get more replies!
I found an article on egrs that explain more info and how they work and why problems occur at low and high rpm. Will post from lappy later currently on iPod.
Would love to know more o. How to get erg off. Will take advice above. Cheers

[ake]

yes your picture is of egr

[jacko1611]

pinking noise dosnt really point towards the egr. if the egr was sticking open from being gunked up then i wouldnt have thought it would b so infrequent.

i would b thinking injectors to be honest. put some decent diesel in, ultimate or v power along with a fuel additive and see how it goes from there and get codes read.

dosnt hurt to blank egr off but they are a bit awkward to get off on fwd tdci's

also how long has the fuel filter been on there? dosnt look old from photo but could open the drain tap slightly and see if any water comes out.

[RyanJJones]

Cheers.
The link I was opn about is http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egr.htm which makes interesting reading.
It played up yesterday and today, but only 10-15 miles after cold.

I can believe it is the EGR as: Working okay when hot/parked; then closed; then park. Then when cold next day, first few miles engine is cold and non crusing (so staying closed). Then a bit of cruising then it opens and then sticks, then causes issue. Then after a few engine restarts it clears (due to repeated movement/heat) - then okay for rest of the day.

Thats a theory anyway! Will take off and examine to see how "free" it is - good practice if nothing else. If its obvious just crud in it I'll clean and reassemble and leave working, otherwise I may block the vaccum tube.

No DCT code so assuming not fuel pump/injectors at this stage.

Fuel filter is 14k old - van being serviced next week and this will be replaced then.

[RyanJJones]

OK.
A few hours later....

Took the EGR valve off (f***ing hell, the last 2 retaining nuts are a PITA - any top tips!? They eventually came off with my rachet spanners but boy - what a pain!)

The EGR was fairly well coked up, and blowing in the exhaust inlet showed a leak through to the engine even with EGR closed. This may explain some of the "want to stall" symotoms when stone cold. No ammount of sucking on the vaccum tube would move piston and seal. (maybe explains why issue is only when engine is hot and has been subject to some expansion?) So after a good clean the vaccum such and a push on the piston freed up and I got a good seal when closed.

I've blocked the vaccum pipe so EGR is now closed and disabled and will see what happens over next few days to see if problem has permanently gone away. Otherwise I'll reconnect. I'll also eye up a spare now I have the part numbers off it.

Incidentally, is there a technique for getting the pipe clips back on? I managed it but it wasn't fun. (My after-market crusie control made one a mare!)

Thanks to all helpers - esp ake for the advice to remove and clean which otherwise I may not have done.

[redvanman]

[quote="RyanJJones"]OK.


I've blocked the vaccum pipe so EGR is now closed and disabled and will see what happens over next few days to see if problem has permanently gone away. Otherwise I'll reconnect. I'll also eye up a spare now I have the part numbers off it.

.[/quote

if advice dicates you just block the pipe to disable the egr valve why do people go to the extra trouble of using a blanking plate?

good thread Ryan keep us posted on results

[ake]

You can only block the pipe on TDCis, on TDDi blocking the pipe throws up a fault code

[jacko1611]

the tdci on fwd mk6 dosnt monitor egr position, tddi have the position sensor.

also blanking the exhaust gas from getting to the valve stops it filling up with exhaust gas and ruining your cleaning work.

[RyanJJones]

Cheers. Will advise how it goes. If it works I'll write a detailed guide for future novices.
(The only option I had for a blanking plate was an old waxoil can - so decided against that lol!
Pics:-

Before



After

[RyanJJones]

FYI.
I'm hopeful Will keep you advised.

I've written a full detail on the fix http://www.doyourdream.co.uk/2010/10/en ... lling-etc/

So lets hope it works lol!