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BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Standa » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:05 pm

After blanking EGR I got better fuel consumption bcs it lets me drive in lower revs now.
2.4 125hp MK6 10L/100km before - 9.0-9.5L/100km now . Same roads, no change in driving style, EGR fully working before being blanked.
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby martynx » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:09 pm

EGR systems account for up to 30% of the mass gas of the intake, so blanking will result in that % coming via the intake & will therefore have more oxygen, & more oxygen means what is present mixture wise will combust more efficiently....:)
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Felixx » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:21 am

:arrow:
MrMPuk wrote:http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60324
Very interesting read that.As I'm new to Ford Transit engines,I'm feeling my way,so to speak,but because all modern engines work,more or less,on the same principles,it should be simple to kind of figure things out,if you know what I mean.On the EGR issue,this component,I suspect,works on vacuum,so stopping the vacuum prevents the valve working,however,you have to make sure that the valve is in the "closed" position when you stop it working,otherwise it will interfere with the inlet manifold pressure (MAP) readings that are being sent to the ECU.
This confuses the ECU as it's used to taking readings from different sensors,and allows the correct amount of fuel to be mixed with the air present in the manifold.This can lead to over fueling,hence less MPG!,(in theory).The reason the engine keeps going into "limp mode" is because the ECU is uncertain of what's happening and is doing it to safeguard the engine,(pulling things back so to speak).Unfortunately,as I'm aware,because of all the sensors in modern engines,it's virtually impossible to stop the EML from coming on unless you have it deleted from the ECU program.Not all vehicle engine go into limp mode however,and continue to run quit happily,with the benefit of improved in the low down end,(torque),of the acceleration curve.Please be aware,this issue only applies to engines that have the EML/sensor present in their ECU, (Mk7 etc).On engines without this,(the Mk6),there should be no similar problems,you should be able to go blissfully on your way.However,there is still the question,does EGR blanking increase fuel consumption or not?. FELIXX. :D
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby ake » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:56 am

Felixx wrote::arrow:
MrMPuk wrote:http://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60324
Very interesting read that.As I'm new to Ford Transit engines,I'm feeling my way,so to speak,but because all modern engines work,more or less,on the same principles,it should be simple to kind of figure things out,if you know what I mean.On the EGR issue,this component,I suspect,works on vacuum,so stopping the vacuum prevents the valve working,however,you have to make sure that the valve is in the "closed" position when you stop it working,otherwise it will interfere with the inlet manifold pressure (MAP) readings that are being sent to the ECU.
This confuses the ECU as it's used to taking readings from different sensors,and allows the correct amount of fuel to be mixed with the air present in the manifold.This can lead to over fueling,hence less MPG!,(in theory).The reason the engine keeps going into "limp mode" is because the ECU is uncertain of what's happening and is doing it to safeguard the engine,(pulling things back so to speak).Unfortunately,as I'm aware,because of all the sensors in modern engines,it's virtually impossible to stop the EML from coming on unless you have it deleted from the ECU program.Not all vehicle engine go into limp mode however,and continue to run quit happily,with the benefit of improved in the low down end,(torque),of the acceleration curve.Please be aware,this issue only applies to engines that have the EML/sensor present in their ECU, (Mk7 etc).On engines without this,(the Mk6),there should be no similar problems,you should be able to go blissfully on your way.However,there is still the question,does EGR blanking increase fuel consumption or not?. FELIXX. :D

Blanking egr does not increase fuel consumption,
Read Martyns post for simple explanation
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Felixx » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:27 pm

martynx wrote:EGR systems account for up to 30% of the mass gas of the intake, so blanking will result in that % coming via the intake & will therefore have more oxygen, & more oxygen means what is present mixture wise will combust more efficiently....:)
:arrow: That sums it up perfectly. :D However,on a Mk7 series engine,the ECU might compensate by over fueling.This is only theoretical,and has never,to my knowledge anyway,been proven.That's why I asked the question in the first place,to see if anyone had any experience in this area.FELIXX. :D
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby martynx » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:00 pm

In many cases & certainly on any euro 3 spec vehicle physically blanking an egr valves exhaust gas inlet port by making a plate to replace the metal gasket results in more efficiency & better running & mpg etc.. from Euro 4 spec onwards it’s a different story as the effort the ecu makes to preserve egr function increases substantially .. with euro 4 onwards you'll typically see an electronic egr position sensor for example & internally in the engine ecu, a lot more egr related maps. Blank it & ecu will sense a big drop in air mass for any given reported egr position & will adjust boost & fuelling & timing in attempt to force egr to work harder or to keep the noxious gases that the egr controls in check & for sure, a MIL (engine fault light ) will light to remind you have sinned..

So blanking an egr valve on stuff made since approx 2007 model year may work or it may not , depending on the ecu's programming. Do it then pay attention to the throttle response from idle to 2500, if its still like stock & there’s no misfire or hesitation when you boot it a bit from within those rpm ranges then you have got away with it & you will probably get better mpg by up to 10% or so ...

On a Mk7 transit the ecu cant compensate adequately resulting in less air mass & ecu dictates that will require less fuel.. on the 2 i blanked (85 & 130) , they ran crap because of this, losing a lot of throttle response from idle to 2500k rpm, in the range the egr is normally working hardest

I know of 2 x 2.2 110ps mk7's that are blanked & run OK according to the owner , not that i have tested them personally. On a euro 4 75ps connect i tuned recently the ecu won on that one as well, it wasn’t until we removed the egr blanking plate the owner had fitted some time back that it ran correctly .. as on a mk7 , it made quite a negative difference , having it blanked.

Best advice is to get its function defeated in the ecu software, maybe as part of a remap.. then you get the full benefits as the ecu no longer tries to compensate. Straightforward on most bosch ecu's & a pain at best on everything else - everything else of course includes our transits & connects.. I am working on it on mk7's but not done it yet, it takes so long to tune em at present there’s not been any time left for egr business..... :!:
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Felixx » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:41 pm

What I'm trying to find out is will blanking a Mk6 have an adverse effect on the fuel consumption?.Because the ECU is not,I presume,programed to compensate for the drop in manifold pressure by over fueling,it shouldn't therefore,effect the fuel consumption,.............should it,???????????. FELIXX. :D
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby pusd » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:42 am

Ok, so the ECU can tell whether the EGR is working correctly - presumably this is purely by detecting an increase in air temp (when the valve is open....)

So, does anyone fancy having a go at running a 22mm copper pipe from the filtered side of the airbox, close to the exhaust manifold, then connecting it to the the original EGR pipe (blanked at the exhaust) so the preheated 'clean' air runs through the EGR system but the engine would be drawing clean air instead of dirty air........

It's gotta work.
Me? I'm not bothered as I have one of the mk7 110's that runs great with the EGR blanked :)

Phil
PS, Martyn the vans running a treat :wink:
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby martynx » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:16 pm

Felixx wrote:What I'm trying to find out is will blanking a Mk6 have an adverse effect on the fuel consumption?.Because the ECU is not,I presume,programed to compensate for the drop in manifold pressure by over fueling,it shouldn't therefore,effect the fuel consumption,.............should it,???????????. FELIXX. :D


The most complete , honest answer to that is that results vary , why not try it & report back ?
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby martynx » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:21 pm

pusd wrote:Me? I'm not bothered as I have one of the mk7 110's that runs great with the EGR blanked :)

Phil
PS, Martyn the vans running a treat :wink:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The copper pipe thing wont work as the intake is pressurised at about a bar above atmospheric pressure, & the egrs gas feed's in at a lot more than that - if it ran at a vaccum like possibly a petrol non turbo it would work :)
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby pusd » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:17 pm

martynx wrote:
pusd wrote:Me? I'm not bothered as I have one of the mk7 110's that runs great with the EGR blanked :)

Phil
PS, Martyn the vans running a treat :wink:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

The copper pipe thing wont work as the intake is pressurised at about a bar above atmospheric pressure, & the egrs gas feed's in at a lot more than that - if it ran at a vaccum like possibly a petrol non turbo it would work :)


... so the gas from the exhaust is pressurised???

I thought it was just drawn in to the engine.

Phil
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby martynx » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Egr's inlet takes a feed direct from exhaust manifold, think of putting your hand over the tailpipe ?

The egr's outlet exits into the pressurized side of the intake , pressurised by the turbo over & above atmospheric by up to nearly 1 bar..

Theres a pressure & temp sensor just down stream of the egr on a mk7 & its mainly because of this that an ecu can judge an egr valves function or efficiency.. :)
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Standa » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:18 pm

BTW Today I blanked my friends MK6 2.4 and took it for a spin. Well f-uk me what a difference in throttle response. It flies like remaped!
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Felixx » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:59 am

Standa wrote:BTW Today I blanked my friends MK6 2.4 and took it for a spin. Well f-uk me what a difference in throttle response. It flies like remaped!

That's it then,going to give it a go this weekend and see what the results are............watch this space!!. FELIXX. :D
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Re: BLANKING YOUR EGR.Does it effect the fuel economy.

Postby Standa » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:17 pm

Standa wrote:BTW Today I blanked my friends MK6 2.4 and took it for a spin. Well f-uk me what a difference in throttle response. It flies like remaped!

EDIT: I forget to say that I also cleaned "intake air temperature sensor" screwed in EGR body, which was one big black ball of dust and oil. Think it hepled too.
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