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Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

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Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:58 pm

Hi all, im after some advice, but firstly, id like to say what a great help these forums have been to me over the last couple years with my old smiley :).

I own a 06 plate transit TDCI 125 (2.0l diesel), and am having a few issues with the glowplug flashing.

Brief history of the van, bought last year from trade seller, 200k on the clock. Found out it had a botched repair from a snapped cam chain, so a replacement engine was fitted (not sure what parts, but at least new block and head. Injectors and pump all set up OK (think it had 1 new injector))

Van is now at 265k, and not long after a routine service, it started losing power.

Have had it plugged in, and codes P0251 and P1211 have come up. Codes cleared, but came back after the next run out.

Took into local independant specialist (very good, have used for years) who plugged it in and tested various sensors. They came back with the following:-

No pre supply pump, HP pump sucks from tank (there is a definate HISS of air when filter is bled, so is airtight)
HP pump supplying at around 1500 PSI at cranking speed.
injector leak off test all ok
No faults with any sensors.
Fuel pressure regulator on the pump was showing erratic readings, so was changed.

Injectors not yet had a full pressure test done.

Unfortunatly, we cannot seem to get the problem to replicate when he has the van, but it seems to occur more often when carrying a heavy load, with a hot engine, accelerating in 5th from 60mph upwards.

The van generally seems to lack power when you want it, as if its being 'Choked'. Starts and idles perfectly, accelerates 1st through 3rd fine, struggles in 4th, almost no acceleration in 5th.

It doesnt misfire, but seems as if its not got any fuel?!?! (if that makes sense)

Can anybody PLEASE help, as its doing my nut it!!
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby ake » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:40 am

The biggest cause of problems on the 2.0 125 TDci are the injectors, followed closely by the pump :(
2012 Ford Transit 125ps 260 Trend
2008 Ford Transit 130ps 350 Chausson Flash 03


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ake
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:25 am

I have had a leak off test done, and all are well within tolerance. Can a knackered injector still have OK leakoff?
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby winterheating » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:34 am

What were the leak off rates :?: And if ok should be within tolerance for correction factor codes being ok.

1500 bar is too high at cranking speed I think. Was the brown plug and injectors unplugged when this was checked :?:

With the injector loom being removed at least twice, I would carefully check all injector connections, rail and fuel pump connections.
the injector ones are easy broken and give bad connections which can easily give your problem.


What do you mean by bodged engine after snapped chain, have you got any pics of the snapped chain :?: :?:
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby winterheating » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:36 am

REally only time injectors can be at fault with leak off rates being ok is when they smoke, or the leak of procedure isn't being carried out correctly.
the flow of fuel through these injectors is critical for the correct running of these tdcis.I
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:38 am

The leak off test was done by my local expert, so i cant say what the values were, or how the test was done. All he told me was "one was slighlty higher than the other three, but all 4 were within manufacturers guidelines"

We have had a lot of issues with the connectors for the injectors coming loose, so they are all cable tied on. The expert did check them, and says they are all ok. he says he had live data running, and wiggled the entire loom looking for electrical faults.

The 1500 bar at the pump shouldnt be an issue. I cant see a pump increasing its pressure over time (please correct me if im wrong!). Anyway, i would of thought the pressure regulator would of reduced the pressures down.

We have no smoke coming from the exhaust.

The bodge from the snapped cam chain involved broken cam guides glued together, and the oil holes for the tappets were siliconned back together because the cast head had split. We bought the van because it had had a "full rebuild" - yeah, with glue!!
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby winterheating » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:37 pm

There is no guide line amount a such, the minimum amount should be multiplied by 1.4 this is then your max permissible amount, none of the others should be above this. That is after 1 min. 4 min test is to ensure correction factors are correct.

You need new plugs soldering on if they are all broken, the spring that sits in the plastic is vitally important, otherwise the prongs don't sit correctly, causing incorrect pulses, your wasting your time if you don't replace these. It prob wouldn't bring a dtc fault up unless it was totally open circuit.

I'll have to double check on high pressure test but even if 1500 bar was too high, it still would be incorrect even if it was higher :!: :!:
The IMV on pump is closed when energized, fully open when not energised at all.
The flow through injectors, return and flow of fuel all needs to be right to keep the correct pressure in the tdci system.
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:43 pm

Ok, an update for you all.

Van has now had the following:-

3 New injectors (3 failed test, 1 passed)
2x regulators checked and all OK
Spill pipes all changed
Air was getting into filter housing, now changed (no more air)
New filter (no signs of pump breakdown in element)
loom to injectors changed
fuel tank and lines pressure checked, cleaned and re-fitted

...and we are still getting fuel pressure failure code!

Any ideas guys?
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby winterheating » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:24 pm

Its Likly the 4th injector is going to be same as the other 3...........

Where did you get the 3 others from?
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:03 pm

all 4 were tested together at a delphi agent. 3 failed (1 misrably), 1 passed all tests. The agent said theres no need to change the 4th injector.

Have been with him this afternoon, and have discovered the following;

Air is travelling in the fuel line from the pump, to the filter housing (return line) - BUT only when the van is under heavy load, just before it cuts out.

We are having a new fuel pump and rail fitted on friday, and will see what happens!

Will keep you informed!
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby winterheating » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:03 am

a new pump you cant be serious?

the venturi tee piece can suck air in aswell as the leak back pipes and connectors.

how are you testing for air ingress??

Which delphi agent is it.
Did all the injectors get recoded to pcm and did the new injectors get new correcxtion factor codes????

For the sake of one more injector that will most likely fail soon its not worth it, this fuel system has to be spot on otherwwise will give faults.

I take it by injector loom all the engine loom has been replaced?? as was going to say would be worth checking imv plug and wiring for damage and rail sensor the same.

But if you are getting the air ingress then that needs to be sorted first .
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:10 pm

how are you testing for air ingress??


Clear fuel line.
One from tank to filter - clear
One from filter to pump - Air bubbles
One from pump to filter (return) - Air bubbles.

So, One from tank to pump - CLEAR!!
Yet from pump to filter - Air bubbles?!?!

So air is getting in somewhere between the pump inlet to the rail, and the pump outlet to the filter.

Now i must make it clear air bubbles only appear as the glowplug light flashes.

Which delphi agent is it.
Did all the injectors get recoded to pcm and did the new injectors get new correcxtion factor codes????


Swadlincote Diesel. Yes, all the software was done correctly.

I take it by injector loom all the engine loom has been replaced?? as was going to say would be worth checking imv plug and wiring for damage and rail sensor the same.


No, the plugs themselves were broken (metal spring clips) so new plugs were joined onto the loom. The rail pressure sensor is going to be changed tomorrow, as a matter of corse.

And where is the Venturi tee?

Any suggestions?
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby nigel green » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:50 pm

try by passing filter head on the return line and planking off filter head pipes.

ie engine return straight to the tank return pipe, and rubber hose connected between both small pipe connectors on filter head.


if leakoff pipes are dragging in air, this will now go back to tank directly and not get recirculated via filter head.


road test and see if codes come back.
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby tshort1984 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:05 pm

We did somthing similar, by running a clear line from the tank to the pump, which had no bubbles, yet the clear pipe from the pump to the filter had bubbles ONLY when the van was under load, just before the pump cut out.

Just to add a little mix to this epic puzzle, with the fuel lines set up as above, (both lines run into the cab so fuel flow can be seen) we have a manual bulb type primer pump on the line to the pump. If you keep hand pumping this, the van goes like a rocket, with no cutting out. Yet the bulb doesnt deflate when under load.

To me, this shows that the fuel isnt being restricted to the pump (the bulb would deflate due to high negative pressure), yet the pump doesnt get enough fuel.

My 'specialist' seems to think the pump (which has 260k miles on it) is worn out inside, and cant generate the higher pressure (yet admits we should be getting glitter - which we arnt - anywhere!)

Any more ideas anyone?
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Re: Mk6 Transit 125 fuel pressure codes

Postby nigel green » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:33 pm

try testing lift pump by removing fuel temp sensor and testing for pressure at the m12 thread there, you should have around 1 bar at cranking speed, probaly 2 bar at idling speed and up to 6 bar high speed.
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