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The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

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The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:11 pm

Hi,

Daughter took her 2003 Connect out today and I happened to pop in to see her where she was. She mentioned that the screeching noise I had heard once / briefly and she had heard a couple of times the day before, happened again 3 times on the 30 min journey today.

I fired it up and heard it straight away:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5772409/18TDC1%20noises%202.mp4

As you hear the noise stop / dip, the engine falters slightly?

When she gets home I think I should take the aux belt cover off and see if anything is showing signs of wear (rust / seal rubber) and also give any of the bearings I can get to a squirt of lube to see if it pins it down?

Unless anyone can say what it is from the noise alone (please)? ;-)

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby loot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:08 pm

That sounds like a pulley scratching something.
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:42 pm

loot wrote:That sounds like a pulley scratching something.


I think you are right, just which one! ;-)

Someone elsewhere has suggested the crankshaft pulley is rubber cushioned and when the rubber falls apart, the two metal halves can move against each other?

Then it seems our Connect has a clutch on the alternator and any of that could be failing.

There is also a pulley / bearing on the tensioner and possibly another guide pulley?

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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby loot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:41 pm

Best thing as you say is to remove the belt and spin things about :-)
You can put a lever against the crank pulley and see if it moves/splits in a way you don't like.

It doesn't sound like a bearing noise to me tho as in the other pulleys, it just sounds like the outer edge of a pulley is just catching something.
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:05 pm

loot wrote:Best thing as you say is to remove the belt and spin things about :-)


Sounds like a plan. ;-)

You can put a lever against the crank pulley and see if it moves/splits in a way you don't like.


;-)

It doesn't sound like a bearing noise to me tho as in the other pulleys, it just sounds like the outer edge of a pulley is just catching something.


Whilst it could well be that, I'm not sure what pulley could move to rub anything ... unless a bearing had gone (or the rubber bushing collapsed)?

I hope I can get a slot on one of my mates car lifts tomorrow and have a poke about. ;-)

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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby loot » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:17 pm

If something was badly wrong then I'm sure you'd get belt slip and jerky steering etc, on my mk7 tho a combination of worn tensioner and belt resulted in the belt catching part of the tensioner arm which made it squeak, yours is a consistent scrape tho.
I'm sure you'll find it once the belt is off tho :-)
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby rikki19 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:32 pm

That noise sounds like a bad case of a misaligned pulley ...... see diagram . I had a similar issue on my non-Ford car . The p/s pulley was " toed-in " ie. not in the same plane as the others . Mine was caused by a bent p/s pump mounting bracket but could be just a badly worn bearing . If you have a look on the Dayco websites , they explain the differences between " chirping " and " squealing " and a simple check to see if this is your problem .

http://arrc.ebscohost.com/ebsco_static/ ... 61G38L.gif
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:22 am

rikki19 wrote:That noise sounds like a bad case of a misaligned pulley ...... see diagram .


Thanks for that (and understood).

I had a similar issue on my non-Ford car . The p/s pulley was " toed-in " ie. not in the same plane as the others . Mine was caused by a bent p/s pump mounting bracket


It's true we don't know who has done what to the van before we got it. I have taken ownership of many second hand vehicles in my time and always prefer those who have just not had much TLC over those that have been 'played with'. Missing bolts, woodscrews where machine screws should be and twist-n-tape wiring joints that should use proper connectors. ;-(

but could be just a badly worn bearing .


It could. ;-)

If you have a look on the Dayco websites , they explain the differences between " chirping " and " squealing " and a simple check to see if this is your problem


Sorry, I don't know that site. Is it this? http://www.dayco.com/poly-v-belts-1

http://arrc.ebscohost.com/ebsco_static/repair-tips/chiltonimages/8000/88261G38L.gif


I'm in the process of upgrading a very old floor standing pillar drill and just broached a keyway in the ally pulley to fit the new motor. My next job is to mount the motor and have to do the pulley alignment thing on that. Luckily I don't think it's quite as critical on a single narrow 'V' belt as it is a wider poly 'v' but I'll still get it as closely aligned as I can. ;-)

On the Connect ... in case it helps, apparently, the noise only happened once for a few seconds on their journey home (5 urban miles). <shrug>

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby rikki19 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:51 am

Tim , just type in " Dayco chirping " and you'll get an array of threads and videos . The noise is more noticable at start up and idle . Other signs are frayed/chafed edges on the belt . The p/s pulley is a likely culprit if it is pressed on incorrectly ( too far or not far enough on the shaft ) . Then you would have one pulley in a different plane to the others . You'd need specific tools to correct this though...... probably unlikely in your case if it hasn't had a new pulley/pump fitted. If a bearing is worn , a tensioned belt can pull it into an angularly misaligned position .
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:10 am

rikki19 wrote:Tim ,


Hi Rikki. ;-)

just type in " Dayco chirping " and you'll get an array of threads and videos .


Yup, I've just done that and have an array of stuff to go though (thanks).

The noise is more noticable at start up and idle . Other signs are frayed/chafed edges on the belt .


Ok. I've not really had the chance to inspect the belt properly as either daughter is out in the van or it's dark, freezing, raining or blowing a gale (or it seems it has been since she got the van). Hopefully we will get a slot later today. ;-)

The p/s pulley is a likely culprit if it is pressed on incorrectly ( too far or not far enough on the shaft ) . Then you would have one pulley in a different plane to the others .


Understood.

You'd need specific tools to correct this though......


Yes, I have (now) seen such in use on one of the Youtube videos.

probably unlikely in your case if it hasn't had a new pulley/pump fitted.


Whilst the PO seems friendly, information like that wasn't particularly forthcoming. On the advert it said it recently had front disks, cambelt and waterpump and yesterday he said he'd put a cambelt on it when he first got it (which was 2013). Still, it should be good for another 8 years and at least 100k miles so I'm not complaining. ;-)

If a bearing is worn , a tensioned belt can pull it into an angularly misaligned position .


Understood (also covered on one of the videos I watched). Unfortunatly, my mate with a garage is full up for the next two days so I won't be looking underneath (in his heated workshop) for now. So, if the sun is still shining when she gets back today I'll see what I can see / feel.

I'd have to say I'm no fan of transverse engine layouts (never have been). In fact we sold the wifes Mini to buy the MkII Escort kitcar 27 years ago and that thing is still going today and is so very easy to work on. My 2L Sierra Estate was also such a pleasure to work on, not that I needed to much in 23 years and 100K miles. The cambelt snapped a couple of miles from home ('safe engine', no worries). Mate in said garage came out and towed me in (he doesn't normally do recoveries but he is a very good mate) and an hour later I was back at home with a new cambelt fitted (at the total cost of about 12 quid). Sorted! ;-)

With most transverse engined vehicles you often have to remove airboxes and header tanks, loads of plumbing, covers and engine mounts and then (try to) work down a 2" wide slot ... To change a clutch you have to remove road wheels, suspension legs, clipped in drive shafts and all manor of other stuff. I fitted a second hand gearbox in my Morris Minor van with it up on ramps, at night and in the rain in the car park I bought it from and then drove it home. ;-)

The (often expensive to fix) power steering, central locking, aircon, electric windows, immobiliser, fuel injection pumps or 'computers' never went wrong on most of my cars as most of them never had any! Nearly all of those things have gone wrong on any of the cars I have had that had them. ;-(

As I still have the 2L Pinto and 5 speed box out of the Serria, maybe I should start looking for a early 'old skool' Transit with a blown engine? What models should I look for? ;-)

Anyway, gripe over <g>... thanks for your help and advice and I hope to be able to report something back later today (if I manage to get my fingers back out of some tiny gap that is ...). ;-)

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:09 pm

rikki19 wrote:Tim , just type in " Dayco chirping " and you'll get an array of threads and videos . The noise is more noticable at start up and idle . Other signs are frayed/chafed edges on the belt . The p/s pulley is a likely culprit if it is pressed on incorrectly ( too far or not far enough on the shaft ) . Then you would have one pulley in a different plane to the others . You'd need specific tools to correct this though...... probably unlikely in your case if it hasn't had a new pulley/pump fitted. If a bearing is worn , a tensioned belt can pull it into an angularly misaligned position .


Just thinking on this again ... the noise (this particular noise) seems to be co-incident with the engine faltering slightly.

I seems to go like this ... screeching noise slowly builds up, engine falters as the noise stops or deminishes slightly / briefly and in some cases, rinse and repeat.

This was also as daugter described it when she has experienced it when actually driving.

So, is whatever is making the noise (lets say a failing bearing on a pully) (partially) seizing momentarily or is the engine faltering momentarily and that changing the noise?

Anyway, daughter has just come back with the van and said she didn't hear the noise once on the whole trip?

We need to check / adjust the antifreeze so will do that now and see if the noise comes back ...

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:13 pm

T i m wrote: We need to check / adjust the antifreeze so will do that now and see if the noise comes back ...


So, she drove me in the van to the car spares place and bought 5l of 'Comma Super longlife Red' antifreeze. We stopped and started a few times and not a squeak from the engine? ;-(

We drained, flushed and re-filled with 33% a/f mix and ran it up to temperature, again, not a squeak?

Whilst I was under the front I checked the alternator drive and found I couldn't turn the alternator (by hand, using the rubber drive / joint) either way? I thougfht there was supposed to be a one-way / overrun clutch between the aux belt and the alternator (in the belt pulley presumably?) and assumed therefore I should be able to turn it freely in one direction? I could rotate the alternator drive both ways very slightly (on the flax of the belt) and thought I could hear a tiny 'squeak' each time I turned it in one direction?

Secondly, what I think was an idler pully at the bottom had a bit of slack on it (it could be moved sideways at the edge a mm or so) and it looked a bit rusty round the bearing? It would be easy to get a squirt of lube on it as soon as the squeak returns. The PS pump pulley felt ok and all pulleys seemed to spin fairly consistently when the engine was running.

So, about the only thing that is still directly questionable is the 'clutch' on the alternator drive? Any thoughts on that please?

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:30 pm

T i m wrote:So, about the only thing that is still directly questionable is the 'clutch' on the alternator drive? Any thoughts on that please?


So, yesterday in the wind and a bit of rain I supervised daughter (well, it's her van after all <g>) removing the aux belt and the clutch drive shaft from her Connect and replacing the old / seized 'Alternator Decoupler Pulley' with a nice new one (25 quid). ;-)

Apart from now being able to rotate the alternator coupling one way and not the other (rather than neither way <g>), it still doesn't squeak! However, this time the lack of squeak is down to a fully working ADP, rather than one about to seize up. ;-)

She put a new belt on while she was there (kept the old one as a spare), plus changed the oil and oil and air filters. Was it just her or is there a bit of a trick to getting the oil filter out of the engine bay cleanly?

Cheers, T i m
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby doebag » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:48 pm

It has to be one of the worst located filters I have ever changed. I don't think it is possible to do it cleanly.
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Re: The other engine noise (1.8 TDCi / DLD-418?)

Postby T i m » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:38 pm

doebag wrote:It has to be one of the worst located filters I have ever changed.

Ah, so not just us then. ;-)

I don't think it is possible to do it cleanly.


Daughter has since come up with what could be a good idea (when you are changing the filter whilst laying on yer back on the road). Unscrew the filter and then stand it up the right way and slip it into a bag and seal. Then you can position it any which way as you get it out and no chance of tipping dirty engine oil down your sleeve? ;-(

Cheers, T i m
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