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Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

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Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:01 pm

Hello good people, I need a little help and advice reference the thread title if you would be so kind.

2004 1.8 TDCi 90 - 178578 miles

I bought this van at 114000 about three and a half years ago. The seller had no service paperwork but said that his son, who worked at the local Mercedes garage, did all the work needed and that he had changed the cam belt when he bought it himself, as a precaution. It subsequently turned out that most of what he told me during the sale was lies - utter garbage - and so I was starting to worry about the "cam belt change" that he claimed was done. So;

1. What do I need to get?
2. Best make?
3. Full kit or?
4. Rough cost?
5. If I take it somewhere to get done, what sort of time (approx) would a good mechanic take?
6. Is it a job a reasonable DIY-er can attempt?
7. Would I need any special tools?

I have done bearings, brakes all round, filters, wishbone assemblies but wonder if this, for me, is a step too far.

Thanks, as always,

Greg
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Boghopper » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:47 pm

You need to buy a genuine Ford kit. Finis code is: 1201255.

Here is a kit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus-MK ... xydINSZUej

You should ideally get the timing kit, like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DIESEL-ENGINE- ... el+engines

Yes, I think it is pretty easy if you are fairly competent yourself..
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:28 pm

Boghopper wrote:You need to buy a genuine Ford kit. Finis code is: 1201255.

Here is a kit:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus-MK ... xydINSZUej

You should ideally get the timing kit, like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DIESEL-ENGINE- ... el+engines

Yes, I think it is pretty easy if you are fairly competent yourself..


Thank you - I have ordered the Gates one as, after mucho research, that seems to be the "go-to" make. I saw that timing kit but I was weighing up paying my guy an hour (roughly £30) as against buying the kit AND getting stuck in myself. Plus, the belt will probably see the van out (or damned close). I'll be with the chap and assist and watch very closely what he does - there is no substitute for a live one to one demo eh.

I was also thinking of changing the water pump while we're "in there". I know that it doesn't run off the belt but it looks very accessible when the cam belt is being done and, although I don't know what the expected life of the water pump should be, 180K seems pretty high (13 years!)

One thing I really am struggling to find is the cam belt intervals AFTER the first one has been replaced. I notice with some cars, it gets less with each belt, i.e. my wife's Citroen is 72K and then drops to 48K. Do Ford TC have the same scale or do we "assume" it's good for another 150K/10 years?

Again, thank you.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Piglet » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:08 pm

The cam belt isn't 150K/10 years, that's the lower wet belt.
Your 04 should have a lower chain which allegedly go forever.
Don't quote me but interval on cam belt is something like 70K
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:40 pm

Piglet wrote:The cam belt isn't 150K/10 years, that's the lower wet belt.
Your 04 should have a lower chain which allegedly go forever.
Don't quote me but interval on cam belt is something like 70K


Oh Christ, really? So even if the lyin' little barsteward did get the belt done at circa 100 - 110K, it's definitely due again now going by your figues.

Greg
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Piglet » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:31 pm

Just had a bit of a Google myself and opinion seems divided.
Some are saying that the Ford interval for the cam belt is indeed 150K/10years.
My Haynes clearly states 62500.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby andz327 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 pm

Piglet wrote:Just had a bit of a Google myself and opinion seems divided.
Some are saying that the Ford interval for the cam belt is indeed 150K/10years.
My Haynes clearly states 62500.
Have you had vehicle since new.....if not can you really be sure of mileage or how its been driven ......for what it costs just do it and then you can drive confident without worrying for next 66k
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:25 pm

Well, just a follow up on this;

I did get my mechanic guy to do it for me with me watching, and assisting, intently. I have to say that, in future, I would have no qualms about doing it myself. It was indeed very straightforward and simple and apart from a reasonable socket set, you only need a decent quality trolley jack, torque wrench and the plate that locks the camshaft (goes in the slot on the other end of the engine). The only other thing is maybe some gasket sealant if you are intending to re-use the rocker cover seal. The amound of disassembly is minimal and it is very obvious which way the belt goes on. Time taken was 75 minutes.

The old belt was one that had been changed about 80 000 ago and, upon close inspection, one of the teeth was breaking away. Not wholly critical but you wonder how much longer it might have lasted fefore the dreaded "ping" followed by the horrible sound of pistons and valves shaking hands.

I had the water pump and serpentine belt changed at the same time as, with the cam belt cover off, it was more easily accessible. Probably prudent to do it and save future labour costs. There was play in the shaft so happy that I did. Serpentine belt looked old too. If this inspires anyone to take the job on, good for you. I am by no means an expert - more of an eager-to-learn-type of amateur DIY-er.

Happy days.

Greg
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby liteace » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:53 pm

axxeman wrote:Well, just a follow up on this;

I did get my mechanic guy to do it for me with me watching, and assisting, intently. I have to say that, in future, I would have no qualms about doing it myself. It was indeed very straightforward and simple and apart from a reasonable socket set, you only need a decent quality trolley jack, torque wrench and the plate that locks the camshaft (goes in the slot on the other end of the engine). .............................................................


What about the cam pulley puller, crank timing pin and locking tool, if they wasn't used then the timing is not 100% correct!
Please don't send me PM's, i can't access them, when I try I get this:

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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:03 pm

liteace wrote:
axxeman wrote:Well, just a follow up on this;

I did get my mechanic guy to do it for me with me watching, and assisting, intently. I have to say that, in future, I would have no qualms about doing it myself. It was indeed very straightforward and simple and apart from a reasonable socket set, you only need a decent quality trolley jack, torque wrench and the plate that locks the camshaft (goes in the slot on the other end of the engine). .............................................................


What about the cam pulley puller, crank timing pin and locking tool, if they wasn't used then the timing is not 100% correct!


Well, they weren't and it is. The chap has done a good few over 25 years so I bow to his experience. Everything was marked up and, after fitting the new belt and adjusting the tensioner, manually rotating the engine a few times off of the crank, and rechecking, everything was aligned perfectly. Plus I have now done 300 miles and it's running sweet as.

I'd be far more concerned about the 80 Nm torque on the nuts that go onto the engine mount studs that are seated in aluminium than anything else!
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Piglet » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:49 pm

As the belts age & stretch, we don't reset the cam timing.
If the timing was set correct on the previous belt fitment then the cam pulley position should be identical subject only to belt manufacturing tolerance.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby axxeman » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:46 am

Piglet wrote:As the belts age & stretch, we don't reset the cam timing.
If the timing was set correct on the previous belt fitment then the cam pulley position should be identical subject only to belt manufacturing tolerance.


Thanks Piggy, almost verbatim what I was told from three independent sources. And you are also correct in that the old belt, when compared to the new one, had indeed stretched a little too.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Piglet » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:05 am

I did reset the cam pulley when I did mine, but only because I changed the camshaft oil seal.
Managed to get the pulley off with a small 3 leg puller, bit of mucking about though.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby Boghopper » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:59 pm

As the belts age & stretch, we don't reset the cam timing. If the timing was set correct on the previous belt fitment then the cam pulley position should be identical subject only to belt manufacturing tolerance.


But if the belt has stretched since the cam was last locked the crank will be in a different position due to the slop in the belt. As the belt stretches the angle between the cam and the crank increases, not by a great deal, but by a little. Everytime these garages do half a job that tolerance increases. By not using the crank pin to retime the crank with the cam you are refitting the new belt to the old stretched belt setting.
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Re: Cam/ Timing Belt Questions Help Please ...

Postby sean602 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:05 am

presuming that someone re set the pulleys with a stretched belt in situ, otherwise if the pulleys were set when a new belt was fitted and that belt has consequentially "stretched" re fitting a new belt would surely put it all back to pre stretch setting ( do belts stretch or do the teeth wear?)
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