Transitmania 10 @Santa Pod 18th to 20th May 2018


Injectors failing symptoms?

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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby Kenton » Wed May 02, 2018 9:43 am

Cheers for the in-depth update axxeman! Very interesting. Have been reading with intrigue! Will be cool to hear what the cold starts are like now. If it has cured it, then this is what i will do too. Just the expense of the damn injectors which has been holding me back!... I will be going for a pukka new set, so will start saving now i know this is the problem with mine!
Cheers again for all the updates and info mate, greatly appreciated!
K
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby axxeman » Wed May 02, 2018 2:14 pm

Kenton wrote:Cheers for the in-depth update axxeman! Very interesting. Have been reading with intrigue! Will be cool to hear what the cold starts are like now. If it has cured it, then this is what i will do too. Just the expense of the damn injectors which has been holding me back!... I will be going for a pukka new set, so will start saving now i know this is the problem with mine!
Cheers again for all the updates and info mate, greatly appreciated!
K


Cold start today was still a little spluttery but better than it was AND it drove away fine rather than coughing until it warmed up. So at least one of the two remaining injectors is misbehaving. I am going to order another two today and that will be the whole set renewed and I am 99.999% certain that will see the problem finally disappear. The difference in running is quite noticeable even with only 50% of the set changed. The mpg seems to be better too but I will need to do a proper test over 300-500 miles to be certain of that.

Do yourself a favour and get refurbished injectors from P F Jones. After you send the old ones back, the price is £90 each AND you get a 12 month unlimited warranty.

Greg
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby Kenton » Sun May 13, 2018 4:02 pm

Cheers for another update Greg! How are things now? Really hope this solves the problem. I will be doing the same as soon as i can afford it!... :roll:

K
Connect 05 T230 LX 90 LWB
ST 17" alloys & Toyo Proxes
Focus ST170 seats
Fiesta Zetec steering wheel & G/K
Mondeo Door handles & vents
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby axxeman » Fri May 18, 2018 10:01 am

UPDATE FRIDAY MAY 18TH 2018.

So, where are we now ..? My chap has disappeared abroad for a well earned holiday which, unfortunately, has co-incided with the second pair of injectors arriving. I have decided to be brave and fit these myself. Since the last update post, I have been monitoring the fuel consumption and I am happy to report that the mpg has increased by between 9 and 10 per cent. Very pleased to be getting more miles; it'll eventually offset the cost if it continues.

OK, deep breath and get stuck in. Luckily the two remaining injectors are in cylinders 1 and 2. These are by far the easiest to get at with very little in the way. Also, because they have been disturbed recently, I was happy that they would come out easily or I would not have become Mr Have-A-Go. Dismantling took very little time;
Unplug spill pipes
Undo fuel pipes from injectors and central distribution union with 17 mm AF spanner. (Wrap assembly in clean rag to prevent ingress of any dirt etc)
Remove electrical plugs by pinching the two side wires simultaneously and pulling away carefully - fingers can be fiddly but needle nose pliers are way better for this
Finally undo flange head clamp bolts holding injectors in and remove

I only removed one at a time so as to minimise the risk of dropping something into the engine by accident. The holes got a clean out with a rag and a blow to make sure there was no residual loose crud sitting at the bottom of the bore where the copper washer seals. That was it really. Re-assemble in reverse order using new copper washers (which came already on the refurbed injectors), new clamp bolts (which are torqued at 5 nm plus 90 degrees).

For coding I used FORScan. It's a great (free) piece of software but I had to buy an ELM327 connector off of eBay for circa £16. There isn't much in the way of a user manual so you have to read the forum quite a bit to extract the required info, (bit like here eh!), but, having managed to get it to talk to my ECU, I was pretty happy that coding would occur. If not I'd walk 3/4 mile to the local guys and cadge their Snap-On unit for a tenner ...

Coding is just painstaking really. Hexadecimal means that there are no letter O's used - they are all zeroes. Mistaking a zero and inputting an O would be easy to do if you are not concentrating. So, codes entered and saved to ECU. Double check that they are indeed in there correctly by reading them again with FORScan and it's fingers crossed time. I turned the key and she cranked for a few seconds before firing up OK. Coughed a bit as I hadn't bothered to bleed out the air. Took it for a spin of 5/6 miles and then dropped into the aforementioned local bods to allow them to cast their eyes on my efforts (in case I had done something really stupid). Got the "two thumbs up" and went home.

During the test drive there were a few splutters but they abated as the air was purged. Engine was noticeably quieter - especially on tick over. I have three journeys this weekend so I will get more of a feel for how it now is over 260 miles or so. It'll be interesting for sure. The two injectors that I removed were black as your hat on the nozzles so no wonder it was running bad. Here are a couple of links on info I found helpful;

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=163873&p=1392829&hilit=forscan+forscan+coding+injectors#p1392829

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-USB-Mo ... 2749.l2649

Cheers all, will do a final update after 1000 miles.

Greg
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby axxeman » Mon May 21, 2018 7:10 pm

MINOR UPDATE

OK - for those following this saga, here is a post week-end report. Did about 300 miles in three separate trips and here's what I noticed;

1. Engine runs much quieter. Took about 30 miles for the second pair of injectors to "settle in", but was very smooth thereafter, in all gears and speeds (especially going through 30 mph zones etc).
2. Fuel consumption still appearing to be up to 10% better, (even though I have been driving harder than normal whilst trying to evaluate the benefits of the new Delphi injectors.)
3. "Diesel knock", especially accelerating from cold, has completely gone.
4. More torque generated. Van is pulling uphill much better and in higher gear(s).

Now for the bad news; it still coughs and splutters when first started BUT stops this immediately that I drive off. I have had a good look round and am beginning to suspect air in the system or getting into the system when stood idle. I'll check all the pipes carefully this week. I did notice a seal (?) missing from the electrical plug that mates with injector # 2. There is a reddish circular "washer" that locates into the round hole in the injector, where the two wires are, when you clip the electrical plug into it and it is missing from that one. What it does I know not and I am buggered if I can get one separately, so I have ordered a repair kit from fleabay for 6 quid and I'll nick the one out of that and fit it.

I am very happy to be running better but vexed that I haven't completely eradicated it. Maybe it's something that I'll have to live with. I dunno ...

Kindest,

Greg
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby xillent » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:12 pm

Interesting read. In the last week my van, 189000 miles, starting running on what sounds like 2 or 3 cylinders until she gets hot. Very poor acceleration at lower revs. Once she heats up she's fine and if re-started when still hot also fine. Sounds very similar. Quite a lot of blue smoke when starting cold too.
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby APH » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:57 pm

sounds like faulty glow plugs causing your spluttering at startup. Had the same with mine.

New plugs fitted in about 30mins, and I always give 2 "pre heat" cycles with the key o cod mornings, and never had the issue again.

Andy. :D
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby axxeman » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:03 pm

APH wrote:sounds like faulty glow plugs causing your spluttering at startup. Had the same with mine.

New plugs fitted in about 30mins, and I always give 2 "pre heat" cycles with the key o cod mornings, and never had the issue again.

Andy. :D


No chance amigo. Fitted new set when engine changed and you don't need glow plugs in the summer! It's air ingress but I doubt if I can be bothered to go find it. Spent enough time - and money - on this bugger.

Cheers.
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby APH » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:02 am

Fair enough, I won't go in to why they turn back on AFTER the engine has started, at all ambient air temperatures.
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Re: Injectors failing symptoms?

Postby axxeman » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:07 am

APH wrote:Fair enough, I won't go in to why they turn back on AFTER the engine has started, at all ambient air temperatures.


Yeah, I remember reading that once but, as I said, they are all brand new so not on the suspect list plus it does it after running at 70/75 for an hour sometimes, always on the same stretch of road near home. Thanks for your input but, as I said, I have pretty much closed the lid on this. While it continues to run OK 99.9% of the time I'll try to put it to the back of my mind. I'll probably check the fault codes when I get a moment to see what, if anything, is stored there. The replacement engine and refurbed injectors seem OK and I'd be more concerned about the MOT test next Feb now that diesels - old diesels - are under the microscope more than ever. It's always a conundrum when something major goes wrong whether to a) scrap it and get another second hand one and a load of potential headaches or b) fix it and hope you get your money back out of it in usage ...

I'm not sure that I went the right way.

Regards.
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