*NOW BOOKED FOR 2024* Transitmania 15 @ Santa Pod 19th to 21st July 2024 *ALL DETAILS HERE*


CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Post here camper and camper conversion related stuff!

Moderator: Luke

CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Guillaume » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:44 am

Hello everyone!

I am actually trying to budget a project and evaluate if that project is feasible technically.
So the Idea is simple I love skiing and I am going every year since I am 7 years old, it's been 20 years know (Crap). Next year I am gonna relocate to Avignon in the south of France and I will be within 3h-4h of the skiing resort.
My Idea is to be able to go skiing at the week end with an self sufficient converted van.

So this are the features that I would like for the project:
- Designed for 1 or 2 people.
- High roof LWB van (me and my girlfrind are quite tall and we would like to be able to stand up in the van)
- Extreme insulation (I probably won't have any windows to start with) capable of maintaining the heat inside when it's -5 degrees outside and possibly windy.
- Having a diesel heater (like an Eberspacher) that is safe and can run through the night.
- Inside storage for ski and gears (+ space to dry stuff in the evening)
- Hot water system
- Shower and toilet cabin
- mini kitchen
- Permanent bed that can fold if necessary


I'd like to have a compression fridge but it's not a necessity.

I also would like to respect a budget of 6000£ maximum including the van. In order to do that I was planing on buying a van under 3000£.
I will probably get a second hand diesel heater to reduce the costs. For the hot water I was thinking of a portable tankless water boiler that you can find online for less than 100£ (I am not sure if this is legal or safe I need to read about it).

I have never done either electricity or plumbing but I feel confident that I would be able to learn as I go and ask for help around me. I will also need to buy electric tools but this can be excluded from the budget.

Please let me know what you think about it, I need the vision of people that have done the journey of converting a van so I can see if this project is feasible and not just a crazy dream.

Guillaume.
Guillaume
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:16 am

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Beaker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:46 pm

It's not a crazy idea, it's a superb one!

3000 Euros for the conversion is maybe a little low for what you want, but maybe possible if you can find second hand heaters, fridges etc. and build as much as you can yourself.

The first thing to do is to check all the French regulations regarding campervans, and make sure you follow them. I'm sure they will be different to UK regulations - for example in the UK you need at least one side window for it to be classed a campervan. Windows can easyily be covered with thermal insulation pads at night to prevent heat loss.

Set up a Pinterest account and see what other people have done on their conversions, and save them to your Pinterest page. This will give you many really good ideas that you can use to help you.

A drying room is a good idea in theory, but most camp sites in the mountains have these anyway, so is it really needed? It will need to be heated, and extremely well ventilated to remove the moisture from your van.

Make sure you have several 12V cigarrette lighter sockets in your build - electric ski boot heaters would be a great idea.
2011 SWB medium roof 2.2l Mk7 115 T300 in Frozen White. Stealth Camper converted.

"It's better to burn out, 'cause rust never sleeps..."
Beaker
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:27 pm
Location: Northampton.

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Guillaume » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:54 pm

Hi Beaker,

First thank you for the support :) !

I never thought about setting up a pinterest account but that is a great idea.
I didn't know that one side window was the mandatory minimum to get classify as a camper, I need to include that in the price as well. The best would probably be a double glazed plastic window for insulation.

A drying room is a good idea in theory, but most camp sites in the mountains have these anyway, so is it really needed?


I don't really want to rely on campsite as I will probably be camping in small resort/village so I would like to be autonomous. It's probably not going to be a drying room as such. It is most likely to be a hanging area, close enough to the heating system to get efficient drying.
However as you underlined it the humidity/moisture will automatically build up and I need a good ventilation, this another big issue because ventilation means loss of heat especially if it's on the roof.
I still don't know how I am going to deal with this but maybe extend the heater output to go at the back near by the bed. The bed area itself would be surrounded by thick curtains and the hanging/drying area would be at the back in between the curtains and the back doors. With this configuration I would put the extractor fan near the front just above the cooking area. This would create a warm draft going from the back to the front of the van.
Maybe :roll: ? I need to think about it but it's way to early to resolve that kind of technical issue anyway.

Regarding the electrical installation is it possible to have compression fridge running without being hooked up to the 220v from a campsite with only one leisure battery and no solar panel? (other electrical appliance would be LED lights, pumps, and heater starter and fan). If I can have 2 days autonomy that would be sufficient.

Regarding prices you say that £3000 is very limited for the quantity of equipment/luxury that I want. What figure would you estimate for all equipment van, paper work and tools excluded.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply!
Guillaume
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:16 am

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Beaker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Windows are compulsory in the UK, I really don't know about French regulations, so you need to check.

Moisture is your biggest enemy - you need plenty of ventilation in a van, regardless of how cold it is outside. Remember, being cold and dry is ok - just put on a fleece, but being cold and damp is truly miserable.
2011 SWB medium roof 2.2l Mk7 115 T300 in Frozen White. Stealth Camper converted.

"It's better to burn out, 'cause rust never sleeps..."
Beaker
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:27 pm
Location: Northampton.

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Beaker » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:49 pm

3000 Euros is easily possible, but you will need to be very creative with what you buy, what you build yourself and what you can get for free. I'm afraid I can't give you a realistic budget for what you want, as many of those items are ones I have not fitted in my van.

Paperwork is free in the UK - I don't know if there is a charge in France. As far as tools go, I reckon I have spent less than £50 on tools, but I own a reasonable selection of basic tools already. You really can do it with very basic hand tools - the only power tools I have used are a cordless drill from Lidl and a jigsaw.

Finding salvaged shower units and shower/toilet cubicles from old caravans could save you a fortune, so find a caravan breakers and see what you can get. There must be hundred of campsites within easy travelling distance from Avignon, You could also find cookers, sinks, water heaters and furniture units cheap too.

You may not need a fridge either, which you save you a huge amount of money - a good ice box from companies like Waeco, Igloo, Yeti or Icey Tek will keep food and beer cold for four days if used properly - even in summer, You don't need them to be connected to gas or electric which will again, save you a lot of money. At around £100 they are a good option.
2011 SWB medium roof 2.2l Mk7 115 T300 in Frozen White. Stealth Camper converted.

"It's better to burn out, 'cause rust never sleeps..."
Beaker
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:27 pm
Location: Northampton.

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby straydog » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:06 am

Are you already located in France?
If not you will struggle to get a UK converted camper registered in France (Ask me how I know :cry: )
User avatar
straydog
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:06 am
Location: Most of Europe

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby Guillaume » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 am

Hi Straydog,

I am still in the uk for now, I will certainly relocate beginning of 2018. My idea is to buy a classic UK right hand side drive van and then export it and register it in France and then convert it once there.
The reason why I want to buy it here is because the price and the choice is a lot more attractive than in France. I also Don't want to start building now because i'm evaluating the feasibility, building cost, running cost (pros and cons), I don't want to jump in that adventure without a clear plan.

you will struggle to get a UK converted camper registered in France (Ask me how I know :cry: )


What did happen to you?
Guillaume
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:16 am

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby straydog » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:58 am

Couldn't get it registered in France without going through the DRIRE as it was a "Conversion", and the cost was prohibitive,
Would have cost over 1000€ by the time I had finished.
You may get away with it if you register it as a standard panel van (It'll still cost though, not sure the going rate)
Make sure you can get a Certificate of Conformity for the van before you do anything.

http://www.carte-grise.org/reception.htm

Véhicule modifié
Il faut en effet savoir que toute transformation notable d'un véhicule ,tel par exemple le changement d'un moteur ,doit faire l'objet d'une nouvelle réception par la DRIRE. A noter qu'avant de procéder à des modifications sur votre véhicule, il est nécessaire de contacter au préalable la DRIRE de votre région avant de réaliser la modification envisagée et ce afin d'éviter les surprises désagréables.

Google translate
"Modified vehicle"
"It is necessary to know that any significant transformation of a vehicle, such as for example the change of an engine, must be the subject of a new reception by the DRIRE. Please note that before making modifications to your vehicle, it is necessary to contact the DRIRE of your region before carrying out the modification envisaged in order to avoid unpleasant surprises."

Hope this helps,
User avatar
straydog
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:06 am
Location: Most of Europe

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby 12111954 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Hello G

just to add to what 'Straydog' has posted, importing a Van into France is either Very very simple - or very f*****cking prohibitively erxpensive, and thats a straightforward Van...... If you have Modified it in anyway (ie Motorhome) then really you cannot expect to get it registered.

First the simple bit, Buy a van less than 4 years old, Keep the Sales receipt ( proof you have paid VAT ) Take the receipt, proof of your address (Energy Bill) ID. (Passport) to the local Tax office where you live, and ask for a 'certificate of payment of VAT' give them the docs. This takes 30 mins. :)

Then go to any Departmental Prefecture, fill in a form for " First Registration of a Vehicle in France' present your "Tax Cert." Certificate of Conformity, English Reg Document, proof of address and a Cheque. When you first register a vehicle in France you have to pay duty, this is linked to the pollution of the vehicle, the more polluting the higher the tax. For old Big Diesel engined motors ... like a Landy expect to pay £1500 upwards. For a modern 1600cc Diesel Van Euro 5 tax is 280€
At Alençon Prefecture it takes 15mins at Desk, You get Registration doc 3 days later in post.
You should buy new LHD headlights, Your speedo should read in kM per hour but unless you need an MOT ( Controle Technique in France for vehicles older than 4 years) nobody checks them :roll:

The crux is " Obtaining a Certificate of Conformity " For cars, it is possible to go quite a way back, but for commercial vehicles it is only possible to get Cert. of Conf. for vehicles BUILT after OCTOBER 2010 I tried with a Transit first registered March 2011. could not get because it was built JULY 2010. I was advised to ask Ford France for a " Statement of conformity " + 300 € I ask for a guarantee that this would register it in France ...... NON :lol: take it to DRIRE

So I sold the Transit :cry:
I had the Van insured in UK with Adrian Flux, but could only have 60 days in EU, so I talked to my local MAAF Assurance in France and they agreed to insure me with UK Reg for single trip up 180 days insurance in EU. I kept Adrian Flux insurance 'cos It was needed for MID Database I taxed and MOTd the van. This worked nicely for Four years :)
Then Brexit :D ....... I received a letter From my insurer MAAF stating I had 30 days to register my Van in France ....... I got an extension ...... and I failed to get the Certificate of Conformity

On the Bright side ....... If you insure your Van for Private use ( like SDP in UK ) then it is ok to put 'private' things in it like a bed and a cooker etc. :) you do not need to bother with changing the registration.

Be aware, a Van registered early 2011 MAY have been built before the cut-off date, then you are stuffed A 2012 Van should be OK :?: better to check but over 4 years old you will need a 'Controle Technique' in France New headlights ..... say 300€ so ad that to the bill.

You only pay the tax once :)

I go skiing every year,with eberspacher it works, insulate every panel on the van, fill every void, and cover everything in a vapour barrier. You cannot wild camp in any ski resort or small village, it is heavily policed. There will be 'Camping Aires' nearby that you have to use or campsites. I've ski'ed in France for years, The pyrenees, The Alps and more recently the Jura mountains. I use campsites, even with a eberspacher heater which keeps you warm, the engine too needs looking after, The liquid diesel heaters are perfect for the job but an expensive addition onto the cabin Air heater. I stay at Mouthe in Jura, it has the reputation for being the coldest place in France I've experienced -25 degrees there and - 15 to - 20 is not at all unusual. I used a 300watt sump heater, but after -20 it is ' touch and go ' as to whether it will start

On the new van I will install a 2Kw Water heater with electric pump, this will ensure easy starting but of course needs a Mains hookup.

Sorry for such a long post......... just dont underestimate what you want to get into .....

Colin
12111954
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:31 am

Re: CamperSnow Budgeting and evaluation

Postby straydog » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:31 pm

Hey Colin.
Good advice there.
I've re registered 4 vehicles here including a Mk3 Transit , all over 10 years ago now though
Went easy as an easy thing, and not overly expensive.
But since the change to a Central registry. :(
Tried to rereg a 2010 Toyota Hiace a couple of years ago, turned out to be a PITA so decided not to.
Then this year tried to reg my Mk7 Transit as a converted Campervan.....Not a chance :evil:


So Guillaume, best advice is to buy a French Reg vehicle from the start.
Save an awful lot of aggro and €s

Dog
User avatar
straydog
Transit Aficionado
Transit Aficionado
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:06 am
Location: Most of Europe


Return to Camper vans and conversions



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.