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inverter installation

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inverter installation

Postby savino » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 am

Hi, looking to rig up 240v in the back to run various appliances but knowledge of electrics is terrible, iv'e searched google/on here etc but am still not completely sure what i'm doing. I plan to run a TV, 500w heater, air bed pump, interior lights, low power kettle, charge phone/laptop, iv'e bought a Bestek 1000w inverter which seemed pretty good from the reviews and I think is powerful enough to cover what I want to use albeit not all at the same time I presume!? How powerful a battery would you recommend, it seems most leisure batteries on ebay are either 85a or 110a? Finally, does the leisure battery hook up to the main battery directly or does it need anything inbetween? cheers
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Re: inverter installation

Postby hectors-tranny » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:18 pm

An inverter is going to take a huge drain off your leisure battery, so you will need to get as large a battery as possible, possibly even have two in parallel as a 'bank'. (Consider also a 12V TV, 12V low power LED lights, and boiling your water via your gas hob.)

Yes you need some sort of split charge relay or isolator between your leisure and starter batteries (so you don't drain your starter battery), as well as correct rated fuses. Here's a summary of options:

A Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) - CHeap and easy but WONT WORK WITH SMART ALTERNATORS.
Manual isolator switch. Very cheap and easy but you have to remember to do it every time you stop and start!
Ignition triggered split charge relay - cheap but may invalidate your warrany as you have to tap into ignition circuit.
Battery to battery charger - very expensive but works with smart alternators, charges your leisure battery MUCH more quickly, fully and safely (battery will last longer). Very easy to install.

Hope that helps as a start.

HT.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby savino » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:37 am

hectors-tranny wrote:An inverter is going to take a huge drain off your leisure battery, so you will need to get as large a battery as possible, possibly even have two in parallel as a 'bank'. (Consider also a 12V TV, 12V low power LED lights, and boiling your water via your gas hob.)

Yes you need some sort of split charge relay or isolator between your leisure and starter batteries (so you don't drain your starter battery), as well as correct rated fuses. Here's a summary of options:

A Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) - CHeap and easy but WONT WORK WITH SMART ALTERNATORS.
Manual isolator switch. Very cheap and easy but you have to remember to do it every time you stop and start!
Ignition triggered split charge relay - cheap but may invalidate your warrany as you have to tap into ignition circuit.
Battery to battery charger - very expensive but works with smart alternators, charges your leisure battery MUCH more quickly, fully and safely (battery will last longer). Very easy to install.

Hope that helps as a start.

HT.


Very helpful thanks. I already have the TV (240v) and no gas as I don't plan on camping, just like drinking tea a lot :) Lights i'm going 12v. In my mind I was thinking the only thing that's potential long use is the TV which is relatively low power and then fire up the engine for a few mins while boiling the kettle.
Iv'e got an 09 connect which I believe is before the smart alternator!? so I think either a VSR or Ignition trig split charge relay would be the best option for me.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby dumper » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:14 am

The only difference in my setup to hectors is mine is a 1600 wt to run a microwave I have fitted a master switch for the inverter I read in the instructions that even when switched off it still had a very slight power draw as it’s a campervan and can be stood for sometimes for a week or two it may flatten the battery
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1974 mk1 v4 with 2.0 pinto fitted
1986 mk3 2.5 di swb
1990 190 lwb 2.5 di
1998 100 lwb 2.5 di
2006 350 jumbo 135 tdci
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Re: inverter installation

Postby mistericeman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:47 am

We have a 3000w mod sine wave inverter powered by 3 x 100ah leisure batteries charged via a durite VSR and 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof in our campervan Jumbo....
We run a microwave /kettle /slow cooker /toaster etc only for short periods.
You'll need plenty of battery power for anything power hungry (and facilities for recharging)
300ah of leisure batteries actually gives us a safe usage of 150ah (50% discharge)
Your electric heater is going to be your biggest draw... Might be, better fitting an eberspacher instead.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby bulls in transit » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:47 am

Isn’t running a tv obsolete if you’ve got a laptop/tablet?


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Re: inverter installation

Postby savino » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:55 pm

mistericeman wrote:We have a 3000w mod sine wave inverter powered by 3 x 100ah leisure batteries charged via a durite VSR and 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof in our campervan Jumbo....
We run a microwave /kettle /slow cooker /toaster etc only for short periods.
You'll need plenty of battery power for anything power hungry (and facilities for recharging)
300ah of leisure batteries actually gives us a safe usage of 150ah (50% discharge)
Your electric heater is going to be your biggest draw... Might be, better fitting an eberspacher instead.


hmm.. beginning to wonder if its more aggro than it's worth especially given the cost and weight, I don't actually need any of it it. I'm not interested in having to use charging facilities nor do I want to have more than 1 leisure batt in the back. So with a 110ah batt and a 1000w inverter is it unrealistic to think i'm gonna be able to pull up at the beach, watch tv for 30mins, have a cup of tea and drive off again?
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Re: inverter installation

Postby richbee » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:15 am

savino wrote:
mistericeman wrote:We have a 3000w mod sine wave inverter powered by 3 x 100ah leisure batteries charged via a durite VSR and 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof in our campervan Jumbo....
We run a microwave /kettle /slow cooker /toaster etc only for short periods.
You'll need plenty of battery power for anything power hungry (and facilities for recharging)
300ah of leisure batteries actually gives us a safe usage of 150ah (50% discharge)
Your electric heater is going to be your biggest draw... Might be, better fitting an eberspacher instead.


hmm.. beginning to wonder if its more aggro than it's worth especially given the cost and weight, I don't actually need any of it it. I'm not interested in having to use charging facilities nor do I want to have more than 1 leisure batt in the back. So with a 110ah batt and a 1000w inverter is it unrealistic to think i'm gonna be able to pull up at the beach, watch tv for 30mins, have a cup of tea and drive off again?
A £10 mini gas burner from blacks or wherever might be a better solution for a cuppa, the ones with the replaceable cartridges. I've got one tucked under my back seat (custom dciv)

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Re: inverter installation

Postby bluebottle » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:16 pm

savino wrote:
mistericeman wrote:We have a 3000w mod sine wave inverter powered by 3 x 100ah leisure batteries charged via a durite VSR and 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof in our campervan Jumbo....
We run a microwave /kettle /slow cooker /toaster etc only for short periods.
You'll need plenty of battery power for anything power hungry (and facilities for recharging)
300ah of leisure batteries actually gives us a safe usage of 150ah (50% discharge)
Your electric heater is going to be your biggest draw... Might be, better fitting an eberspacher instead.


hmm.. beginning to wonder if its more aggro than it's worth especially given the cost and weight, I don't actually need any of it it. I'm not interested in having to use charging facilities nor do I want to have more than 1 leisure batt in the back. So with a 110ah batt and a 1000w inverter is it unrealistic to think i'm gonna be able to pull up at the beach, watch tv for 30mins, have a cup of tea and drive off again?


You could do that, half an hour of TV won't be terrible. But, for the kettle I'd go for gas myself as well. Anything with a heating element will spank your battery - especially if it's going through an inverter. Also remember that you need much beefier cables for 12v than 240v if you want to avoid violating rule 0*.



*rule 0: don't be on fire.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby savino » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:50 pm

bluebottle wrote:
savino wrote:
mistericeman wrote:We have a 3000w mod sine wave inverter powered by 3 x 100ah leisure batteries charged via a durite VSR and 2 x 100w solar panels on the roof in our campervan Jumbo....
We run a microwave /kettle /slow cooker /toaster etc only for short periods.
You'll need plenty of battery power for anything power hungry (and facilities for recharging)
300ah of leisure batteries actually gives us a safe usage of 150ah (50% discharge)
Your electric heater is going to be your biggest draw... Might be, better fitting an eberspacher instead.


hmm.. beginning to wonder if its more aggro than it's worth especially given the cost and weight, I don't actually need any of it it. I'm not interested in having to use charging facilities nor do I want to have more than 1 leisure batt in the back. So with a 110ah batt and a 1000w inverter is it unrealistic to think i'm gonna be able to pull up at the beach, watch tv for 30mins, have a cup of tea and drive off again?


You could do that, half an hour of TV won't be terrible. But, for the kettle I'd go for gas myself as well. Anything with a heating element will spank your battery - especially if it's going through an inverter. Also remember that you need much beefier cables for 12v than 240v if you want to avoid violating rule 0*.




*rule 0: don't be on fire.


ok. I had a little play with an old car bat I had laying around, ran the tv ok but as soon as I tried a 500w heater the inverter light went from green to red. As suggested it seems the kettle/heater is gonna be a no go. Another question... is it ok to fully discharge "leisure" battery's or is there a certain level to not fall below?
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Re: inverter installation

Postby hectors-tranny » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:59 pm

For maximum longevity, a leisure battery shouldn't be discharged more than 50%. Hence if you work out you need 60 amp hours, buy a 120 amp hour battery.

You can discharge them more but it will shorten its life. If you discharge fully you may ruin it, although some chargers can apparently 'save' fully discharged batteries.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby savino » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:42 pm

hectors-tranny wrote:For maximum longevity, a leisure battery shouldn't be discharged more than 50%. Hence if you work out you need 60 amp hours, buy a 120 amp hour battery.

You can discharge them more but it will shorten its life. If you discharge fully you may ruin it, although some chargers can apparently 'save' fully discharged batteries.


Ok thanks.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby bluebottle » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:31 pm

savino wrote:
hectors-tranny wrote:For maximum longevity, a leisure battery shouldn't be discharged more than 50%. Hence if you work out you need 60 amp hours, buy a 120 amp hour battery.

You can discharge them more but it will shorten its life. If you discharge fully you may ruin it, although some chargers can apparently 'save' fully discharged batteries.


Ok thanks.


Also, car batteries and leisure batteries are different beasts. A car battery is designed to provide a short large amperage spike and be immediately charged back up, and a leisure battery is designed to provide lower amperage for longer. Leisure batteries can survive being drained more than car batteries, but no standard lead acid battery likes to be drained over much before sulphation destroys their capacity. Also, an _old_ car battery will likely be pretty shagged in any case.
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Re: inverter installation

Postby mistericeman » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:07 pm

bluebottle wrote:
savino wrote:
hectors-tranny wrote:For maximum longevity, a leisure battery shouldn't be discharged more than 50%. Hence if you work out you need 60 amp hours, buy a 120 amp hour battery.

You can discharge them more but it will shorten its life. If you discharge fully you may ruin it, although some chargers can apparently 'save' fully discharged batteries.


Ok thanks.


Also, car batteries and leisure batteries are different beasts. A car battery is designed to provide a short large amperage spike and be immediately charged back up, and a leisure battery is designed to provide lower amperage for longer. Leisure batteries can survive being drained more than car batteries, but no standard lead acid battery likes to be drained over much before sulphation destroys their capacity. Also, an _old_ car battery will likely be pretty shagged in any case.



Bear in mind unless you are spending a decent amount on a so called 'leisure' battery...
It's likely to be little more than a re badged starter battery... Possibly with slightly heavier plates,
Proper deep cycle batteries like Trojans etc are much better IF you can justify the rather higher cost.
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