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Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby Markwalsh » Thu May 11, 2017 3:42 pm

Fords own Zafira B problem? Faulty Injectors
During the 2nd half of 2016 and the 1st quarter of 2017 Ford manufactured a number of 2.0 litre Euro 6 compliant engine units for the Transit van range with faulty fuel injectors.
The engine units were installed across the range of vehicles and Ford do not have a record of which vehicles were fitted with the faulty injectors, hence the reason that no recalls have been issued, recalls have been issued for the timing gear failures on the same units in the range, however, most of these units are known about and recalls are being issued where applicable, however, in many cases some vehicles will have the both problems but may only materialise outside the 30 day rejection period.
Some of the engines were installed with 1, 2, 3 or 4 faulty injectors, making the issue for consumers materialise under different conditions and frequencies, some vehicles will experience the problem within a few miles others will only be affected under certain load conditions, unfortunately if the vehicle is not used or tested under load or at motorway speeds within the first month, the customer may not notice the problem until the 30 day rejection period expires leaving the customer with having to give the dealer the opportunity to remedy the problem and lose the vehicle for 6 weeks or more, or rejecting the vehicle if the fix doesn’t work which has occurred on numerous vehicles and then having to accept a reduced refund price on the vehicle outside the 30 day rejection period.
The problem with the failure is that it has the potential to be far more serious than the Vauxhall Zafira B issue, as the vehicle fuel system reduces the fuel flow without warning to go into a “limp mode”causing the vehicle to slow rapidly without activating the brake lights.
One customer (source supplied) reported travelling on the motorway at 65 -70mph in the middle lane when the vehicle abruptly slowed causing other vehicles on the motorway to swerve and take avoiding action. A sample of the customer complaints can be found on the Ford Transit Forum at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=178478
and at:
http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/for ... ues/46754/
Extracts from the forums have been attached.
From the forums you can see the blogs start around the 23rd March 2017 when various customers were taking delivery of the new 2017 models.
Ford are aware of the issue but are failing to recall the vehicles or to prevent them leaving the dealers until the customers report the problems, as such, the customers are being put at risk and being used as the test dummies.
The extent of the problem is unknown but as the vehicles were only manufactured in the second half of 2016 and early 2017 and are only being delivered to customers now, the incidents of failures are growing, Ford couldn’t comment on the number of vehicles affected as they are not aware of which injectors were installed into which vehicles.
The problem isn’t just a UK problem as the engine units were sold as base cab units to various manufacturers of 2nd tier vehicles such as utility vehicle manufacturers and motorhome manufacturers such as Triagano which manufacture a range of vehicles with the base units being the 2.0L Euro 6 Transit van - Chausson, Benimar, etc the list goes on Trigano are not the only manufacturer using the Ford units as base vehicles, other motorhome manufacturers, fleet hire companies, corporations that purchase Fleets of Ford transit based vehicles may all be affected with the same problem.

With the manufacturers of these 2nd Tier vehicles and dealers supplying them to the public just becoming aware of the issue you can understand their reticence to inform the public prior to purchase, or even the 2nd tier manufactures letting the dealers know as they wouldn’t want to lose the 1000’s of orders, so long as they can get them out of the door, the customer can deal with the issue after the sale.
Apart from the safety issue, the issue of getting the vehicles repaired in a timely manner is also of a major concern, due to the number of vehicles affected, Ford seem to be unable to keep up with the demand for the replacement of injectors and fuel supply lines that are also needed to be replaced to complete the repairs safely.
One customer who only had the vehicle for 28 miles has been waiting for 6 weeks for the vehicle to be repaired due to parts being on back order and insufficient replacement parts in stock, perhaps this is an indicator of the extent of the problem.
It’s hard to understand why Ford hasn’t taken the lead in this and ensured that all new Transits manufactured in the last half of 2016 and the first Quarter of 2017 are safe for customers to take delivery before they are taken onto the road.
With the Zafira B scandal fresh in everyone’s minds and VOSA under pressure to ensure manufactures act rapidly to ensure vehicles are made safe when known issues occur it will be interesting to see how quickly they and Ford respond to this issue, or will they wait for a fatality first?
Please don’t underestimate the seriousness of this issue, no one died in the Zafira B issue because most of the vehicles were stationary when the issue happened this problem only materialises on load or at speed.
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby Markwalsh » Thu May 11, 2017 3:55 pm

After waiting 4 weeks for the vehicle to be repaired with no date for the works to be completed I unfortunately had to reject the camper, after waiting 6 months for delivery, only having it for 1 day, lost holidays, cancelled insurance costs, cancelled storage costs, Fords customer care is atrocious - no offers of compensation - they couldn't give a monkeys.
Fortunately the motorhome dealer refunded the £50,000 in full and did try their hardest to get Ford to pull their finger out.
It took a further 2 weeks for the vehicle to be repaired 6 weeks in total for 4 injectors!
Oh and when the dealer came to pick it up from Ford, the Ford dealer SMC crayford had cracked the rear bumper and it had a scuff along the side of it - Priceless!

Remember to look at the Consumer rights act 2015 - you can reject vehicles within the first 30 days and get a full refund, so long as the fault warrants it, you can still reject the vehicle up to 6 months so long as you give the dealer the opportunity to fix the problem first and if they can't put it right the first time you can reject it - but they then have the right to deduct monies for use / wear and tear so read your rights you're better protected now - you don't have to put up with this type of service from Ford anymore.
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby markw123 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:59 pm

thanks for markwalsh and seamonkey - very informative

i spoke to customer care today and they said they are dealing with it...so i thought id email the MD of Ford, he is yet to reply

it was a month to do the day when it went in for its repair so may get the 30 thing going if no answer by early next week , problem is i like the van and out of all the new ones, its the only one i like... dont want a vw or vivaro
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby keeff » Fri May 12, 2017 8:58 pm

Vw are having trouble with the new euro 6 150 hp transporter so don't get one of those. We got one but hunted around for the last euro 5 stock van.only problem with the custom are 155 hp euro 5 was crap so I would hang on and get it fixed and you should have a good van.



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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby V184 » Fri May 12, 2017 9:16 pm

[quote="keeff"]Vw are having trouble with the new euro 6 150 hp transporter so don't get one of those. We got one but hunted around for the last euro 5 stock van.only problem with the custom are 155 hp euro 5 was crap so I would hang on and get it fixed and you should have a good van.


:roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: funny but very true !
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby markw123 » Fri May 12, 2017 9:54 pm

injectors will be to ford on 22/5 , so i'll have to wait

overall im happy
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby Markwalsh » Tue May 16, 2017 2:20 pm

Hi All

See the reply from Ford to the letter I wrote on the above blog above, it would appear the problem is more wide spread than just a batch of Faulty injectors as I was advised previously by Ford - you can read for yourselves what the reply says.

This would mean that all Motorhomes manufactured in the last half of 2016 or early 2017 could potentially have the fault, not just a few fitted with poorly manufactured injectors, many of the vehicles may appear fault free now but the corrosion process may already have started.

What it also high lights is that Motorhomes will be highly susceptible to this problem as they are used infrequently and left for extended periods as they would be at the manufacturers, which would seem to exacerbate the problem, Ford are looking into ways of mitigating this issue, but if you're one of those who has a new Ford Transit Euro 6 Motorhome I'd ask your supplying dealer what happens in 3 years when your warranty runs out and it's down to corroded fuel injectors - will Ford see this as a latent defect and repair your vehicle for free - ask them and see what they say.

Dear (Name removed)

Ford Customer Relationship Centre
FordMotor Company
Royal OakWay
South Daventry
Northamptonshire NN11 8NT

Tel: 0203 564 4444
Fax: 0808 234 1543

Please quote:

Thank you for your email received on 15May 2017 regarding the injector concerns you had on your previously owned Transit based motorhome,MX17AYZ.
We'd like to explain the issue caused; apologise for the disruption it caused you and allay your wider concerns, as expressed in your communication earlier today.
Ford Engineering has identified a concern with the fuel injectors on some 2.0L EcoBlue engines (Euro 6emissions standards) fitted to Transit Custom and Transit, whereby the injector nozzle can become corroded. This is caused by condensation which forms on the nozzle when the engine is new and run repeatedly for very short periods of time when the engine is cold. Fuel injectors may fail as a consequence, either during vehicle storage or early time in service. Vehicles put into regular use more quickly are unaffected.
During the process of conversion to a motorhome, the engine is regularly started for short periods of time when cold. This is why motorhomes have been particularly affected.
The vehicles are fully repairable, by replacing the injectors. This is not a Safety Recall and any vehicles which have failed due to the issue are being handled directly by a Ford Dealer in line with the terms and conditions of our Manufacturer's Warranty.
Furthermore, corrective action is being addressed in-manufacture and an interim action has already been actioned with motorhome convertors to prevent further recurrence.
Unfortunately in your case, the required injectors were not immediately available for the repair and, despite our Parts Liaison team chasing departments through the logistics chain, delays were unfortunately caused. Parts are now available. We hope to continue with this free supply of parts to ensure no repair is delayed due to parts supply going forward.
We would like to apologise for the delays in your case and the inconvenience it caused you which ultimately led you to reject the vehicle with your motorhome dealer. We can only apologise again and hope that the measures we have in place now will ensure speedier repairs and less disruption for other owners.
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby Marcob » Wed May 17, 2017 7:46 pm

That is absolutely amazing ! When they were taking ten months to get my rear quarter panel they just told me to get lost.
Black 290 L2H1 125 PS Limited
The Ford Transit Custom - saving the environment by not actually going anywhere.
Zero emissions for 4 months and counting.....
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby snowie » Thu May 18, 2017 11:05 am

Update on my van from initial post.
Originally only one injector was replaced, but the problem persisted. (problem being 'service required' alarm, and engine going into limp mode, or engine simply dying on me).
Local Ford dealer have now replaced another two injectors, as their computer detected a problem with two out of the remaining three possibly faulty injectors.
I explained that Ford UK have identified a problem with the injectors, (thanks Marcwalsh for sharing your letter from Ford UK), but dealer says Ford UK will only authorise replacement injectors for those identified as being faulty. Ford UK will not authorise replacement of all injectors as a precaution.
So I am now driving my van, waiting for the fault to happen again.
No confidence in overtaking, just in case the engine dies on me, and worried about travelling long distances just in case the fault gets worse, and van needs recovery.
Strangely, there did not appear to be any issue with 'availability' of replacement injectors. Which, going by the previous posts, makes me a bit suspicious.
Have Ford UK now sorted out the injector shortage problems?
Or did local Ford dealer really replace the injectors?
They wouldn't do that. Would they????????? (Anyone else with this problem still told there is a problem in sourcing new injectors?)
In a way, I'm hoping the fault does re-occur. That way, the fourth injector should then be replaced, and I will then feel more confident in driving the van as it should be.
Like Marcwalsh, I intend to write to Ford UK, make my complaint, and ask for compensation, (at least a free service) for all the hassle.
I live in hope! :wink:
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby Markwalsh » Thu May 18, 2017 1:56 pm

Hi All

After the response Ford sent me I contacted Ford to ask them to clarify issues they hadn't addressed or skirted over in their response - you can see these e-mails below.

Finally a guy called John called me from Ford - who they have trained to speak at 200mph and not to listen to a word you saying - he kept reiterating that Ford would repair the faulty injectors under warranty - and I just asked him why are they not testing or inspecting the vehicles that are still in dealers waiting to be sold or have had deposit's put on them and are waiting to be collected so that the customer doesn't have to deal with this post sale - you can guess his answer "Ford would repair the faulty injectors under warranty" so basically they want you the customer to pick up a potentially Faulty vehicle - and if required just replace 1 injector, wait for the next one to go wrong and you may end up doing this 4 times ! Do you think that's acceptable after paying all that money! They sound like a load of Spiv 1970's east London car dealers (oh sorry that's what they are).

If your not happy and the fault appears in the first 30 days reject the vehicle in the first 30 days, if you're in the 6 month period and the same fault occurs reject the vehicle they only get one go at putting it right. if your considering buying a Ford transit 2.0L Euro 6 based motorhome built in the last half of 2016 and the first quarter of 2017 - don't! unless what you have read on this Forum sounds reasonable to you in the way Ford have treated you, your vehicle could go wrong on you in 1 day (me) or in 2 months or 6 months, then you can't reject the vehicle as easily - remember your right to rejection goes on for 6 years!, so long as you can prove the fault was there from the date of manufacturer you now have the proof, it's in Fords own letter - It's obviously up to you what you want to do - to me being treated like this in this day and age is totally unacceptable and if you put up with it then I suppose that's what you deserve good luck to all of you.

Hi Joanna

I had John phone me this morning to address my points in the last 2 e-mails I sent, unfortunately as I explained to John he still wouldn't answer a very simple question, which is.

Now that Ford are aware of the problem, corroded injectors, and the cause of the problem, what action will Ford be taking to ensure the vehicles waiting in dealers now, are tested to ensure they are not sold or delivered to customers - John kept evading the answer to this by saying it would be dealt with under warranty - this would suggest that although Ford are aware of the problem they will wait until the customer purchases the vehicle or picks the vehicle up, if a customer has already paid for it, and keep quiet about the potential problem, then as soon as the vehicle is taken out of the showroom the customer can sort it out under the warranty - to me, and I expect many others this sounds despicable.

Unfortunately John went complaint deaf at this point and just kept reiterating the same answer that Ford were addressing the problem and any vehicles affected would be dealt with under warranty, as you can see this didn't answer the question - what about all those people due to take delivery, and why can't Ford have the vehicles checked to ensure they're safe and fit for purpose before the customer takes possession of a new vehicle.

I possibly didn't need the answer as it's probably blatantly obvious - it would cost Ford money as not all the vans may be affected, so why bother checking all of them just deal with the ones that have gone wrong once the customer has picked the vehicle up and paid for it, it's harder for them to cancel the order then - sounds a bit like a dodgy '70's car dealer from Dagenham if you ask me.

I'd still like the questioned answered though, rather than avoided like John did, perhaps Mr Barratt would like to earn his crust and give me a straight answer rather than his fact dodging Customer couldn't care less department.




Hi Joanna

Further to the response I sent earlier could you confirm why you believe this is just a warranty item and not a safety recall as the potential for an accident is present due to the nature of the failure.

Ford are currently recalling the same vehicle for a noisy Cam drive gear - surely if this would merit a recall then the injectors would - I think putting up with a bit of noise against the vehicle slowing down rapidly on a motorway constitutes more of a safety issue than a noisy cam drive gear - I understand that if the cam drive gear fails it's likely to cause a catastrophic failure of the entire engine but the results the same the vehicle would slow dramatically.

Secondly, from what your response suggests those owners who currently haven't experienced any issues yet may just be a pending warranty case, as accelerated corrosion may have already taken place but may not have affected the vehicle to an extent where the warning light comes on, and by the nature of the type of vehicle Motorhomes are they will be left for extended periods in storage, therefore accelerating the corrosion, just as they were when they were being constructed.

How will you ensure that all those customers that have put their faith in Ford as I did, won't be sitting there thinking when's it going to go wrong, or will I be able to sell it in 2 or 3 years when everybody knows about the injector issues on 2016 - 2017 Ford transit Euro 6 vehicles.



Hi Joanna

Thank you for the reply and the reasons why the injectors are failing.

However, this doesn't address the issue as to why Ford hasn't ensured that the vehicles manufactured for delivery to motorhome manufacturers aren't being tested prior to being passed on to the customer or that the motorhome manufacturers aren't addressing the issue before passing them onto the dealers, either the manufacturer or the dealer could test the vehicles prior to the customer taking possession ensuring the customer is receiving a vehicle that is road worthy and safe and isn't going to cause him a substantial amount on inconvenience.

Your response, does conflict with what I have been advised by Ford previously that the injectors were manufactured incorrectly, and now possibly for the reason you have suggested may actually affect more vehicles over a greater expanse of time.

So I would again ask, what are Ford doing to ensure that these vehicles are being tested before they are passed onto the customer.
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby snowie » Thu May 18, 2017 7:02 pm

Update on my earlier update.
After covering only 50 ish miles since two further injectors were replaced, and the van spending 8 days with a Ford dealer, the same alarm and engine going into limp mode happened again.
This time, in the outside lane of a very busy dual carriageway at evening rush hour.
How no one didn't plow into the back of me, I just do not know.
Since collecting the van 75 days ago, it has spent 22 days in a Ford workshop.
This is a joke for a brand new van. :x
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby markw123 » Sun May 21, 2017 8:39 pm

ford have called to say mine is ready and i can collect it tomorrow, fingers crossed it wil be ok... i'll let you know
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby snowie » Sun May 21, 2017 9:14 pm

Good luck Markw123. Hope it goes well.
I'm hoping to get a call tomorrow to say that all four injectors have now been replaced.
And if that happens, I hope that's it resolved!
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby snowie » Tue May 23, 2017 1:02 pm

So finally got it back today. All four injectors now replaced (oh really?).
20 minutes and less than 10 miles out of the dealers. Same error.
Went back.
Service manager, who I had spoken to 20 minutes earlier, couldn't believe I was back.
He plugged his computer into my van, and sure enough, error in injector no.3. The one that had just been replaced to complete the set of four. (oh really?)
I told them it was injector 3. The AA told them it was injector 3 which showed the error. Injector 3 was the only one which had NOT been replaced.
The technician, (why are they no longer mechanics?) who carried out the work........replaced injector no. 2.
What can I say?
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Re: Brand new EURO 6 transit problems

Postby V184 » Tue May 23, 2017 6:39 pm

Obviously thought cyl 1 was cyl 4 :roll: unbelievable :?
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