dickllewellyn wrote:So,it’s a van to the government when it comes to speed limits, but when they’re deciding if you can reclaim VAT as a commercial vehicle they suddenly decide it’s a car.. I wish they’d make their mind up! I’m stuck with a panel van or trying to find a 310 DCIV if I want the VAT back, so surely anything you can’t reclaim on should be allowed to do “car” speeds?
a11y wrote:A little update...
After submitting a query via the contact page on http://www.gov.uk, I now have confirmation (in writing) from the International Vehicle Standards Dept, Department for Transport, that unladen weight does NOT include the driver.Dear Mr XXXX
Thank you for your email dated 28 October to the Gov.UK website. Your correspondence has been passed to the Department for Transport and hence to us in International Vehicle Standards (IVS) as we have responsibility for vehicle safety.
In relation to the unladen weight for dual purpose vehicles, as the weight of a driver is not specified as being included and a driver is not part of a vehicle, we understand that this is not included
Yours sincerely
James Brown
Department for Transport
For clarity, my query to them referenced the unladen weight definition here: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explainedThe unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.
It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.
It doesn’t include the weight of:
* fuel
* batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair
So what does that mean for a Transit DCIV in relation to the criteria for a dual-purpose vehicle?
Criterion 1: unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg;
• Unladen weight = “mass in running order” minus weight of driver minus weight of fuel
• Registration document quotes “mass in service” of 2131kg (which is the same as “mass in running order”).
• Using known definition of unladen weight, to calculate “unladen weight” from the “mass in service” requires deducting weight of driver and fuel.
• 90% of 80L tank = 72L diesel = 60kg (because density of diesel = 832kg/m3)
• Weight of driver = 75kg (industry standard)
• Unladen weight = 2131 - 75 - 60 = 1996kg
• i.e. unladen weight of Transit Custom DCIV 290 Limited is less than the max permitted unladen weight for a dual-purpose vehicle.
• Outcome: criterion met.
So, a Transit Custom DCIV H1 L2 290 like mine meets (or can meet) ALL criteria to be classed as a dual-purpose vehicle and hence be subject to car speed limits.
paul2012 wrote:a11y wrote:A little update...
After submitting a query via the contact page on http://www.gov.uk, I now have confirmation (in writing) from the International Vehicle Standards Dept, Department for Transport, that unladen weight does NOT include the driver.Dear Mr XXXX
Thank you for your email dated 28 October to the Gov.UK website. Your correspondence has been passed to the Department for Transport and hence to us in International Vehicle Standards (IVS) as we have responsibility for vehicle safety.
In relation to the unladen weight for dual purpose vehicles, as the weight of a driver is not specified as being included and a driver is not part of a vehicle, we understand that this is not included
Yours sincerely
James Brown
Department for Transport
For clarity, my query to them referenced the unladen weight definition here: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explainedThe unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.
It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.
It doesn’t include the weight of:
* fuel
* batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair
So what does that mean for a Transit DCIV in relation to the criteria for a dual-purpose vehicle?
Criterion 1: unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg;
• Unladen weight = “mass in running order” minus weight of driver minus weight of fuel
• Registration document quotes “mass in service” of 2131kg (which is the same as “mass in running order”).
• Using known definition of unladen weight, to calculate “unladen weight” from the “mass in service” requires deducting weight of driver and fuel.
• 90% of 80L tank = 72L diesel = 60kg (because density of diesel = 832kg/m3)
• Weight of driver = 75kg (industry standard)
• Unladen weight = 2131 - 75 - 60 = 1996kg
• i.e. unladen weight of Transit Custom DCIV 290 Limited is less than the max permitted unladen weight for a dual-purpose vehicle.
• Outcome: criterion met.
So, a Transit Custom DCIV H1 L2 290 like mine meets (or can meet) ALL criteria to be classed as a dual-purpose vehicle and hence be subject to car speed limits.
You have deducted weight of driver. Of which was NEVER included in the 1st place
Your "Mass IN Service" of 2131kg is the weight Ford themselves gave DVLA upon registering the vehicle.
)
richbee wrote:
No, no, no.
Sorry Paul, we've been round this already -
Mass in service is defined under The European Directive 95/48/EC which includes 90% fuel and 75kg for driver and tools.
Kerb weight is different - and does not include the driver
And then unladen weight is different again - without fuel or driver
paul2012 wrote:richbee wrote:
No, no, no.
Sorry Paul, we've been round this already -
Mass in service is defined under The European Directive 95/48/EC which includes 90% fuel and 75kg for driver and tools.
Kerb weight is different - and does not include the driver
And then unladen weight is different again - without fuel or driver
Well I have a renault here & its kerb weight & Mass is service is IDENTICAL
They have done the same as Ford. Calculated for 90% fuel excluding driver
richbee wrote:
Ok fair enough - but If you look at the 'kerb mass' in the brochure for the 290 L2 DCIV, the minimum value is 2056kg, which is exactly 75kg less than the 2131kg 'mass in service' on the V5 - so I don't think Ford have.
I can't believe it is so complicated to get a standard mass rating for vehicles, makes life so complicated.
CrewsControl wrote:Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have a silly speed limit question...
I have a Tourneo Custom that has been converted by MSRT into a van by taking out the rear seats, adding a load floor and filling in the glass to the rear side windows only (ie. the tailgate is still glass and there's no bulkhead) In fact all the Tourneo interior trim including rear aircon has been left in place. They call this model the VR46... but the big thing for me was they managed to get the vehicle category changed to N1 which obviously has tax advantages. However, I'm left with the speed limit question...
So according to the V5 I have:
Model: Tourneo Custom 310 TI TDCI
Body Type: MPV
Taxation Class: Light Goods Vehicle
Number of seats including driver: 9
Vehicle Category: N1
Mass in Service: 2235
I know that there are many category N1 vehicles that have car speed limits... I just don't know if mine is one of them?
Thanks for assistance.
No worries.CrewsControl wrote:Sorry, I wasn't clear... I have rear seats, it's just the third row have now gone. (in fact they are further back than on the DCIV van)
Neither the dealer or my friendly traffic cop can give me a definitive answer, so it's a ridiculous system. Thanks for trying though!
CrewsControl wrote:Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I have a silly speed limit question...
I have a Tourneo Custom that has been converted by MSRT into a van by taking out the rear seats, adding a load floor and filling in the glass to the rear side windows only (ie. the tailgate is still glass and there's no bulkhead) In fact all the Tourneo interior trim including rear aircon has been left in place. They call this model the VR46... but the big thing for me was they managed to get the vehicle category changed to N1 which obviously has tax advantages. However, I'm left with the speed limit question...
So according to the V5 I have:
Model: Tourneo Custom 310 TI TDCI
Body Type: MPV
Taxation Class: Light Goods Vehicle
Number of seats including driver: 9
Vehicle Category: N1
Mass in Service: 2235
I know that there are many category N1 vehicles that have car speed limits... I just don't know if mine is one of them?
Thanks for assistance.
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