Expert help needed 2002 2.0 wont start P1665 P1608 P1664

[Biggles007]

Hi,
Can anyone help with this?

the van will not start. I tried it with the dreaded Easystart and it ran as long as i kept my finger on the easystart nozle. As soon as i stop the engine dies. I have disconnected each injector and it seems to be pumping out very well but possibly not at the right time?

I got the codes "P1665 Injection Pump Control Module Communications ..." (that one appeared twice); "P1608 Watchdog Malfunction". The glow plug light is not flashing.

thats all there was so i then decided to make a note of the Injector codes while i had 'Formidable' plugged in so i went to 'program the injectors' and noted the numbers of each injector (I am assuming if i do have to replace the pump, i will need these codes to program into the new pump?)

Then i tood another reading of the DTCs (as i had cleared them unsuccessfully the first time) and they had changed slightly to: "P1608 Watchdog Malfunction"; "P1664 Injection Pump Control Module Malfunction" and P1608 again.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? I have searched and found a few topics and a few suggestions but did not find anyone with exactly thse codes or anyone to say "Yes, that sorted it" so is anyone experienced with these faults? Obviously thinking Fuel pump but i understand this can often be sorted without changing the pump.

I am very grateful if anyone can help and point me in the right direction (as in what is at fault and what do i ned to do to fix it (excluding take it to Ford!)

Thanks for your help.

BTW i did notice the wired running from one part of the pump to another have all been cut and re-joined so i assume the pump waspreviously stripped in an attempt to sort this out.

Mileage is about 85K

[ake]

What engine output is this, you either have a programmed pump (TDDi) or programmed injectors (TDci) but not both.

[Biggles007]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I am afraid i do not know which one it is. how can i tell? I have tried to paste pictures of the injector pump into this message but it will not go. Does anyone know how to do this?

all the documents are generic and i cannot find the log book at present as i am in the middle of moving and it is all boxed somewhere.

Thanks in advance if you can help

BTW the mileage is 118K not 85K (that is my other van)

[angeleye]

what power output is your engine..should tell you on outside of door something like 280/100...300/90.....260/125 etc....the last digits are outputs
the other way to tell is have you got wires gong to your injectors this model need injector coding.....with out wiring needs pump coding
click on link to help get photos on your thread
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2560

check the wiring by starter motor going to the fuel pump...may have to take starter off to have a good look...this can be a common problem on fwd...if you cant see any breaks shafing etc..peel the outer sheaving away and have a good look/feel for break in wiring..

[Biggles007]

Thanks, the one with the problem at the moment says on the door "100 T280" so does that mean it is an 80 HP?

There do not seem to be any wires to the Injectors but there is to the pump. Presumably this means i have an 80 HP TDDi ?

So what should i look to test next? Thank you for the note on wires. It looks as though the loom has already been tested as the tape around the wire there doesn't look v old. Anyway i shall pull it off and check all wires. Better still is there any particular pin on any connector that will not receive a feed if something is wrong, etc? I just want to methodically go through this and fix it by finding the actual problem and not doing what some seem to do ie to change this.... still the same .... change that .... no change .... thange the other .... no different. Have the whole thing reprogrammed - all good now! Would much rather find the actual fault from the outset so i am really grateful for all your input. What next (assuming the loom is OK)?

Note also that the Formidable software did give me the option to program the injectors and when i selected 'read injectors' if gave me a readout for each injector and when i selected program them, it gave me the option to re write the numbers into the system. I assume this is writing the code number into the Injector pump to match for each cylinder?

Incidentally my older one simply says TRANSIT on the door (that is a 2001 2001 SWB 280 TD (which also has problems but one thing at a time!) so presumably the same engine and injection setup?)

[Altransit]

Thanks, the one with the problem at the moment says on the door "100 T280" so does that mean it is an 80 HP?

No, it will be 100ps (TDDi), T=Turbo, and 280 refers to the weight carrying capacity

[Biggles007]

OK thanks for that. I have uploaded pics of the pump but not sure if this helps?

what do i need to do next?

http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 3895391904

http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 3399765227

Thanks

[angeleye]

yes sorry i put weght then power...eg 280/100 instead of 100/280
right first off check the wiring by the starter motor that goes to the fuel pump..you may have to take starter motor off..have a careful look for breaks /shafing...if you cant find owt split the outer casing of the wires and do a recheck as its not always possible to tell if there is a problem with the wiring,as could well be broken inside..this could well be the problem
check this post click on link similar problem
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124235

[Biggles007]

Hmmmm ... very interesting.

Thanks for that. I shall go and give it a more thorough inspection now.
It would be so nice if mine was as simple as that one. Will give it a go and let you know

[Biggles007]

OK .... they really weren't thinking of us working on them when they squashed these vans together were they?

It was not possibe to do without the starter off and that alone was a rotten job.

Ayway, first thing to note was that it seemed like insulation tape wrapped round and round this so either someone has had this fault before or it was investigated by the guy who first tried to fix this fault.

Unwound and cut back all the shiefing and found right up at the top end (where it goes into the look (not the bottom near the starter)) the blue and red wire is frayed a little. The continuity seems to be there ie there does not seem to ba a break. it is too difficult to get teh tester up into the small gap so i am minded to just tape it all up and close it up.

Any advice? The frayed wire seems to be where the wires pass through a hole. The metal around the hole is quite sharp. I shall put extra tape around it but where do we go from here?

Any views or ideas? Does anyone know what the blue and red wire does? And which pin hole it ends up in on the connector? That way i could test from the pin hole to the frayed wire. I did roughly try it by trying to hold one end of the tester onto the frayed area and the other end tried into each hole of the connector but i did not get any signal. I think this is becasse it was so awkward to get to that i could not make a connection up at the frayed end of the wire. It does not look like there is a break. I can see the copper and it all looks good.

[Biggles007]

BTW, thanks to those who were replying to my older post on the same topic. To make live easier, can we switch all questions and replies to this post as it is the same van. And yes to the question is it a TDDi. I think that has been determined in this post.

Would be happy to know what the blue and red wire does ?

Once again, thank you for your assistance

[APH]

BTW, thanks to those who were replying to my older post on the same topic. To make live easier, can we switch all questions and replies to this post as it is the same van. And yes to the question is it a TDDi. I think that has been determined in this post.

Would be happy to know what the blue and red wire does ?

Once again, thank you for your assistance

the blue/red wire going to the pump is one of two wires that carries can-bus signals (data) from the pump to the PCM (engine management computer) and back again, and if shorted to ground (metalwork) or broken will cause all the fault codes you listed.

However, all the wires can be tested from the pump connector to the PCM connector quite easily with both plugs unplugged, and so can the power feed and main ground wire going to the pump, if all test out ok, then the electronic control module on the pump called an EDC (the bit that main plug goes into) will be shot, and need to be removed and sent out for repair, or the pump will need changing, either way the pump will have to come off, and as you say the wires on the pump going to the solenoids have been cut and joined, then either the edc has been off before, or at least one of the solenoids has been replaced, so the pump could be on its last legs anyway.

As for your injector codes, forget those they are completely spurious on this model of van and serve no purpose whatsoever, as it has mechanical injectors not electronic ones so there is nothing to apply the injector codes to. If van had been running and you had tried to read the injectors it would have stalled as the diagnostic interface will cause a momentery fault in the PCM looking for information that isn't actually used.

However, your pump IS coded to the van's PCM and forms part of the immobiliser, if you get EDC fixed, it should not need any re coding, If you buy a refurbished pump complete it WILL need coding, but will do this itself provided you follow the coding steps EXACTLY as you only get one shot at this before the pump is locked. If pump becomes locked, OR you get a second hand pump from a breakers (no guarantee on how long this will last of course) then the only way to get this coded is by using Ford IDS software, which can only be done at a dealers, or by a few members on here who have the kit. The van WILL NOT rrun untill this is done.

Hope that makes sense,
Andy

[Biggles007]

Thanks Andy, that is really usefull information.

It has taken me a while to get ready and get all this uploaded to show you where i am now and see if that makes any difference so here is what i did since my last post:-

I thought about it and although i was quite sure thee was no break in the wire (or short because the insulation (or new insulation) was not broken) i thought better to make a fix while i had got the starter offetc. So I cut the red/blue wire where the copper was showing and put a pair of connectors on the wire, connected it up and re-tapped the loom and plugged it back in.

I put the starter back on and without putting the inlet manifold back on (as i dont see that the electronics would know one way or the other if this is back on) I read the codes again. Interesting ..... the codes had changed (see pics of all codes listed at the bottom of this post). Filled with hope, i cleared the codes and then read the DTCs once more. Oh! they were back again - including the one that had disappeared :-/

You are also right about the van cutting out when trying to read the Injector codes. I know this because my white van is a year older and not that one has faults too (different ones which i will talk about in a new post soon) and i read the Injector codes on that and it stopped just as you said. It is the same Duratorq engine.

OK before i list the codes in the order they occurred, do you know what the black and red wire is? there were no breaks in it but it does have a few small bubbles on the sleeve. In my experience those only usually occurr if the wire is overheating? There were no breaks and no wire showing so i left it alone.
Here is the sequence with pictures to assist:-

1) the first DTC reading shows:
http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 1301054328

2) Out of interest, i selected the 'Read Injectors' buttom and got:
http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 5191217492

Note you can see the 'Program Injectors' button is Active and it does actually give you the option to change those codes, but of course i agree with you what could it possibly do? The injectors are simply pipes coming out of the pump going to the cylinders

3) I cleared the DTCs and took another DTC reading after the ICU button investigation:
http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 5191217492

4) I fixed the potentially damaged blue and red wire and took another reading. This looked really promising and i really thought fixing that wire had achieved something. Those comms codes were gone and a new one had appeared in their place P0216 Injector/Injector Timing Control Circuit:
http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 5191217492

5) I cleared the codes and switched the Ignition off and then back on and ...... they are back ! :
http://s1296.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 5191217492

If you do get teh time I would appreciate your views/comments on thows screen shots

Thanks againI shall do tests on the wires at both ends but where is the other end? I obviously have the connector that goes on the pump but then it goes into the loom ..... where is the other end? Thanks

[angeleye]

you need to fix that wire you think has overheated pref follow it back to see where its shorted and replace the lot...you need to put manifold back on (rebuild the lot) then clear codes and check for codes these engines read air pressures,boost,temp etc etc all sorts and if it aint built up cant do that properley..it cant tell the ecu what perameters it needs to use... then re post codes for a better answer...theres no point saying it shouldnt matter about manifold because its not electronic it dont work like that,also with all this messing about make sure battery is fully charged as it needs a full charged battery as well
im sure andy will be along later to let you no what the wire actually does

[Biggles007]

OK ...... are you really really sure about that? This is turning into a real pain. Even with starter off it was a nightmare trying to re-make that wire as it was right up near the engine (from the bottom with some large fat hose in my way! And the join i had to make was just where it goes back into the loom.

If i am going to have to replace that whole wire, do you know where it ends up? It starts at the Injector pump connector and then goes up a small loom (which i have remade after stripping it all off) and then joins into a slightly larger loom. I dont know where it goes after that. I am starting to think i need to take the front panel and radiator off :-!