Been nabbed by the police for illegal towing

[vannut]

This has cleared a few things up in my mind.

What about yours ?

This is a situation i have at the moment.

I have been asked to tow a "Dolly" type trailer (ie it has wheels in each corner with the front axle turning on its axis) so no nose weight or axle overload problems.

My van has a gtm of 6000kg (on the plate) and a max braked trailer weight of 2800 kgs on the V5.


The trailer will weigh 2200kgs when in service with a Max GTM of 3500kgs on the trailer plate, and will be fitted out as a kitchen with ovens etc for cooking products for sale . Neither the Van or the trailer will be carrying goods for hire and reward, but it will be being towed for reward.

I know my opinion on the questions below, I would be interested on yours ?


1) would it be Legal for my van to tow it empty with a tare weight of 2400 kgs ish ?


2) would i need to have/use a Tachograph when towing it ?

From what you have said you will be well within your weight limit. However you would need a tachograph as you are over 3500kg train weight and you are carrying goods in the course of your business.

[vannut]

I have just had a reply from a different area of VOSA this morning, which still supports the facts to date.


"Thank you for your email enquiry dated 4th July 2009, concerning the above.

Please find below a link through to a leaflet on our website entitled
'Quick guide to towing small trailers' below."

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/reposit ... b%2008.pdf

[belly]

Hi after reading bits and bobs of this thread i thought phew thankfully i dont need to tow a trailer for business use! so to my suprise on friday i went into the marquee co i contract to, to find a shiny new ifor williams twin axle 16ft 3.5t max weight trailer so ive been asked if i would consider it! and they would help towards tacho/towbar fitting i dont mind using this as i actually think it could be very practical but i want to be legal! so couple of questions!

Firstly my van a 135/350 jumbo and has a gtw of 5750 on the plate! so i can pull a 2250 trailer! can i pull a 3.5t rated trailer as long as its no more than 2250?

Secondly as my van is a jumbo! do i have a legal overall length of van and trailer combo ive got to stick to?

Thirdly i know ive got to fit a tacho and only need to use it when towing! but do i need to use the tacho when returning from a job with the van and trailer both empty? im guessing i do as the combo may still be over 3.5t

Fourthly do i not need an o licence for the tacho? im hoping not! and its just a case of keeping the discs!

it certainly is a minefield out there thanks

[vannut]

Hi after reading bits and bobs of this thread i thought phew thankfully i dont need to tow a trailer for business use! so to my suprise on friday i went into the marquee co i contract to, to find a shiny new ifor williams twin axle 16ft 3.5t max weight trailer so ive been asked if i would consider it! and they would help towards tacho/towbar fitting i dont mind using this as i actually think it could be very practical but i want to be legal! so couple of questions!

Firstly my van a 135/350 jumbo and has a gtw of 5750 on the plate! so i can pull a 2250 trailer! can i pull a 3.5t rated trailer as long as its no more than 2250?

Secondly as my van is a jumbo! do i have a legal overall length of van and trailer combo ive got to stick to?

Thirdly i know ive got to fit a tacho and only need to use it when towing! but do i need to use the tacho when returning from a job with the van and trailer both empty? im guessing i do as the combo may still be over 3.5t

Fourthly do i not need an o licence for the tacho? im hoping not! and its just a case of keeping the discs!

it certainly is a minefield out there thanks

I'll do my best!

1) If your GTW is 5750 you could technically pull 3.5 tonnes providing your van only weighed 2250 at the time (although I wouldn't recommend it as it's better if your drawing vehicle is heavier than the trailer) so yes, if your van actually weighs 3.5t then you can pull your trailer at 2250.

NB, check your V5c in case there is a max trailer weight on there.

2) Overall length mustn't exceed 18 metres

3) You need a tacho if your plated weight is over 3.5t, (what's the Gross weight on the Van?) so as soon as you put the trailer on and carry goods in the course of a business you need the disc in.

You don't need an O licence if the unladen weight of the trailer is less than 1020kgs - which yours will be.

There we go - painless!

[belly]

cheers Vannut your a star well im fine on length then i wouldnt pull a loaded trailer if the van was empty! ive seen a jacknife before wasnt pretty! i will check v5, also one more if i use the trailer say on a monday and stick to hours! but then do lots of hours for the rest of the week without the trailer come friday and i need to tow again will i still be able to? this time of year we do between 50-100 hour weeks

[ME]

Just to reserect a posting i made on this thread earlier.

Today i came off the P&O ferry at dover and in front of me was yet another Jumbo on a Trailer with its wheels off This one was beeing towed by a 4x4. This one had the rear axle overhanging the trailer with the wheels put under the front spring hangers It looked precarious to say the least

[ginsambo]

Although they can't carry anything 4x4's have a higher GTW when it comes to trailers, a disco or defender can legally tow 3500kg period. That is why people still go mad for 4x4 Pickups, because whilst they appear useless and fat, they can be a lot more useful than a transit as well as useful on a muddy site. Practically speaking you would be amazed by the loaded tractor trailers that a disco can pull legally in my experience hay carting, whilst it does looks well unsafe. The transit pickup loaded with hay with a hay trailer, whilst it looks safer actually isn't and it is illegal as its over its Gross Train Weight.....by about 2 tonne..

On the subject of VOSA, I sent them an email recently regarding tyres and my pickup axle weights. They stated as long as the tyres cover the front and rear axles weights there is no problem, so for chassis cab boys you can legally ride 100C's on the front (Check your front axle is 1600kg rated though!) but you must have 103/4C's on the rear twins. Also asked them about Class 7 MOT vehicle 'C' (50 PSI Pressure) rated tyres and fitting adequately load rated tyres that were not 'C' rated, all they replied was that they had to be suitably rated for the vehicle, so didn't answer that one directly. So I assume 'C' rate tyres it is then for a class 7.

[ginsambo]

Sorry, you probably knew that already but were just saying it looked unsafely loaded...think I need to get out more and hand some out less repetative lectures.

[ME]

Sorry, you probably knew that already but were just saying it looked unsafely loaded...think I need to get out more and hand some out less repetative lectures.

Yes i did know all that and we are currently doing a Trailer towing job for a customer with a 7.5 t tipper because he can find Disco's etc with tow bars for hire but they are not fitted with tachographs even if he found one with the trailer @ 3490 kgs i don't think we'd want to pull it with a 4x4 anyway...

Tail wagging the dog etc

[MR BigBeefy LDV Guru]

Just to reserect a posting i made on this thread earlier.

Today i came off the P&O ferry at dover and in front of me was yet another Jumbo on a Trailer with its wheels off This one was beeing towed by a 4x4. This one had the rear axle overhanging the trailer with the wheels put under the front spring hangers It looked precarious to say the least

wtf i dont beleive this i saw it on the m1 this evening i couldnt beleive it

but when i saw it it was on the hard shoulder with the police behind it and vosa in front of it im assuming that he is gonna get fecked up the jacksy by both of them

[dazrecoverymad]

so if i was towing a trailer plated 3500kg gvw using it to supply sand to paying customers etc i would need an o licence and a tacho fitted?
would it be possible to tow 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 ?where would i find the information in black and white that the vehicle is capable of pulling a trailer with that weight
thanks
also if the 4x4 is capable of pulling a 3500kg trailer is this ok because the trailer weighs more than the drawing vehicle?

seems dvla are clueless
and so are the police
ive asked both and cant get to the bottom

[sc_BK]

so if i was towing a trailer plated 3500kg gvw using it to supply sand to paying customers etc i would need an o licence and a tacho fitted?
would it be possible to tow 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 ?where would i find the information in black and white that the vehicle is capable of pulling a trailer with that weight
thanks
also if the 4x4 is capable of pulling a 3500kg trailer is this ok because the trailer weighs more than the drawing vehicle?

It would depend what vehicle it is, I know some of the "beefier" land rovers etc can tow 3500kg (assuming you have the licence). There should be a weight plate on the vehicle or have a look in the manual.

If you're delivering sand and the gross train is over 3500 (gross vehicle + gross trailer) then yes you should have a tacho

[vannut]

so if i was towing a trailer plated 3500kg gvw using it to supply sand to paying customers etc i would need an o licence and a tacho fitted?
would it be possible to tow 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 ?where would i find the information in black and white that the vehicle is capable of pulling a trailer with that weight
thanks
also if the 4x4 is capable of pulling a 3500kg trailer is this ok because the trailer weighs more than the drawing vehicle?

seems dvla are clueless
and so are the police
ive asked both and cant get to the bottom

As ScBK said, in certain circumstances, yes. If you post details of the weights on the manufacturer's plate and the trailer, and also what groups you have on your driving licence, we can tell you exactly what you can and can't do with the vehicle.

The chances are, you will need a tacho though.

Hope this helps

[Terry]

I used to tow quite a lot but as time has gone by I am doing less. That is probably exactly what these over complicated towing regulations are all about. It seems fairly obvious that eventually you will only be allowed to tow an unbraked trailer or a be an artic driver. They have made it a minefield now to maximise the fines they can collect (hence the 'blitz') before they have to publish a difinitive ,comprehensible and enforce-able law.
This may seem out of place but read on.
This lack of clarity reminds me of a joke......
A man was stopped walking down the street about his person he had a crowbar. He was duly arrested and summoned for carrying a housebreaking implement. During the case he was called to give evidence and his response was, 'You will have to prosecute me for rape too' the astonished court asked if he had actually raped anyone, to which he replied, 'No but I am carrying the equipment to do so'
In the case of the initial post in this thread, the copper had all the 'evidence' to prosecute there and then at the side of the road. Why did he decide a visit to the weighbridge was in order ? Having seen the driver had made a valid attempt to be legal & interpret the rules sensibly, he was obliged to justify the stop/weighbridge visit so he used the open to misenterpretation 'laws' to prosecute.
As a friend is fond of quoting 'The more corrupt the society the more numerous the laws'........Tacitus

[dieseldog6]

I have just discovered this site and post, and find it very interesting, as I run a Transit 115/350 car transporter and have just bought a trailer for it. now I have just had a long conversation with VOSA over this problem. after 30 mins on the phone they ended up agreeing with me and apologising, that so long as the train weight is not exceeded, I can put what I like on the trailer. this is because if they were to try and take you to court under this law, it would make every HGV on the road illegal, while truck has a plated weight of somewhere upto 44 ton it's design weight is way above that, the same with a trailer, so the MAM would be somewhere in the region of 100 tons, This needs testing in court and I will be happy to go that route as soon as I get pulled, infact before that I will be getting intouch with the local plod to try and sort this out. because the way the law stands, there doing you for something you might do , not what you have done.