What seemed like a good idea

[Luke]

So how do you use 1st to stop the van?

might just manage it up a slight hill

[rover]

Well as most of you know my van is now auto, and it the best thing I have ever done!

The MPG is BETTER than it was with the manual, I know some of you may not believe that but its true, with 95% of all my miloeage done in and around town it makes perfect sense.

The engine braking is not as neck braking as a manual box but to say you cant controll it is total crap, why do you think there are four gears? you wanna slow down sharpish just drop the stick back one at a time, so whats the difference there then? I cant give a realistic opinion on the brake wear on the Transit yet but the Volvo has done 28000 on the same disks and pads, and they are still at 75%

As for Drifting, well you may have gathered from my lack of input into that thread that I just consider it total abuse, and dangerous to boot! If you wanna do it on a track thats fine, but if I caught someone doing it round my way on the roads I would have no hesitation but to report them... Anyway Nuff said, didnt mean to ramble

My Volvo 940 is also Auto by the way

So after all that you would assume that I am in the Auto 'camp', but I really dont have any particular preference one way or the other, so long as the clutch is light enough in a manual I'm happy enough to drive it, but in a Transit that is very very hard to find( except the new ones which I would buy if I have a choice).


Rover.

[vannut]

I have to say I agree with your point about the drifting. (Perhaps I've just shovelled too many bodies off the roads and broken the bad news to too many parents wives etc...)

Modern autos are just as quick, and economical as manuals, (some are now 6 speed!) although I have to concede that some of the older 3 speed autoboxes were pretty awful and thirsty.

My transit is manual, (unfortunately) and is a 100ps 280 front wheel drive which goes very well. My other toy is a Range Rover 4.6HSE auto, (loads of grunt) and I know which I enjoy driving most.

[100ps_drw_hicube]

manual for me need it for drifting etc and whats this about brakes to slow gears to go i hardly ever use the brake gears are excellent for stopping the van brake pads last me ages in fact i have only ever put 1 set in my current van that was because they were grinding when i got it 28k later and theres loads left

"Gears are excellent for stopping the van"? so which gear do you actually use to stop then?

as in not stopping it entirely but i can go from 90 -20 easily with out brakes and in a safe and controlled manner never had a clutch in any of my vehicles last van i drove for 110k this one 50k never had a box and only the 1 set of brake (pads per van) in all them, miles

what is it with the modern driver they dont seem to realise the throttle works both ways they slam the brakes on just lift off the throttle and it works well

[100ps_drw_hicube]

As for Drifting, well you may have gathered from my lack of input into that thread that I just consider it total abuse, and dangerous to boot! If you wanna do it on a track thats fine, but if I caught someone doing it round my way on the roads I would have no hesitation but to report them... Anyway Nuff said, didnt mean to ramble

Rover.

sorry you feel that way but if you have seen the videos i have been doing it on a deserted roundabout in the middle of the night so the only person who could come to any harm is me and that isnt very likely as the speeds dont go over 30mph, and as yet im not a millionaire so trackdays are out of the question and thats another good thing if anyone did contact the police they wouldnt bother unless they had seen for themselves they would consider it to much work i have been cautioned twice each time it went to the cps they dropped it as they knew its a waste of time and a waste of taxpayers money

[vannut]

Matching gear speed to road conditions and low brake use is actually taught at Advanced driving level...so that kinda blows your theory out of the water .

I've been a Class One Advanced driver for over 20 years, and was an advanced driving instructor for 10, (and we're not talking about the Institute of Advanced Motorists).

One of the very first things you are taught is that you don't use the gears to slow down. You are quite right that "Matching gear speed to road conditions and low brake use is actually taught at Advanced driving level"

The correct gear is selected AFTER you have adjusted your speed by acceleration sense and use of the brakes. (Use of the brakes CAN be reduced by proper forward observations and planning, enabling you to make better use of acceleration sense)

As for selecting first gear at 90, I.m sure that the many other users of this forum will agree that it is very unlikely that you could actually select fist gear at 90 miles per hour.

If you do try it on a regular basis you will wear out the synchromesh rings VERY quickly, and if you agtually manage to engage 1st at that speed the likelihood is that the clutch plate will disintegrate as it spins on the input shaft at about 10 times the speed that it is designed for. Without the support of being held in place by the pressure of the cover plate and flywheel, the friction material literally flies off the plate.

Having theoretically engaged first gear at 90, and assuming the clutch plate is still intact, if you actually let the clutch out, two things will happen, firstly the engine would be over revved to the poit of destruction, (the valves would probably come into contact with the pistions quicker than you could say "let's drift round this roundabout") and the rear wheels would virtually lock and lose traction, rendering the likeihood of slowing down "in a safe and controlled manner" impossible.

I really don't wish to criticise or diss you in any way, and I do admire the skill required to drift a vehicle, (especially a Transit) but i agree that such practices should be kept off the road. As for slowing from 90 in first, I think you are being a little unrealistic. (as I'm sure most members reading this do) We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

As for not having the control with an automatic, I have taught anti hijack driving to many people tasked with protecting royalty/vips etc, which involved j turns, y turns, ramming, high speed manoeuvrability etc, and automatics proved time after time to be the most flexible option

[vannut]

p.s. I can assure you that you can perform VERY impressive drifts with an auto.....

[100ps_drw_hicube]

sorry maybe i didnt explain myself i use the gearS to slow me down from 90 ie. 5th 4th 3rd 2nd etc never go to 1st as its no good on my van you can pull away in 2nd with same amount of clutch in 2nd basically i only ever use 1st when offroad as its pointless on the road except in an extreme hillstart im sure anyone with a 100ps engine and 5.14 axle ratio will tell you the same

[100ps_drw_hicube]

p.s. I can assure you that you can perform VERY impressive drifts with an auto.....

i can imagine i dont dislike auto's but there just not for me i have seen a few auto's thrash manuals and yes they might be nicer to drive but i prefer a manual each to their own

[MarkM]

Matching gear speed to road conditions and low brake use is actually taught at Advanced driving level...so that kinda blows your theory out of the water .

I've been a Class One Advanced driver for over 20 years, and was an advanced driving instructor for 10, (and we're not talking about the Institute of Advanced Motorists).

One of the very first things you are taught is that you don't use the gears to slow down. You are quite right that "Matching gear speed to road conditions and low brake use is actually taught at Advanced driving level"

The correct gear is selected AFTER you have adjusted your speed by acceleration sense and use of the brakes. (Use of the brakes CAN be reduced by proper forward observations and planning, enabling you to make better use of acceleration sense)

I have quoted this part since this is the part that was relevent to my post your third paragraph is the major part that backs up what I was saying about control and even more so that the use of an auto box is not really to be included in that description due to the way it works for you, the manual box is by nature user controlled....
Your later comment about drifting in an auto is correct but again it does depend on the vehicle and the suspension setup. I managed (by accident I might add) to drift in my Granada and it did not feel very controlled. On the occaisions when i tried to flip the back out it didn't want to know...even full kick down wouldn't get the wheels spinning...but my particular Granada sat very low to the ground as it was made for some reason as nothing was "sports equipment". In BMW's (whom I worked for) it was a similar story but then quite a few of them had fancy toys to reduce these problems....I put a 535Si sport sideways along an A road due to a mud slide left by some road working truck and had it been the auto (toys regardless) I would have been in the central resevation thankfully I didn't.
Overall I can see we are not going to agree but then people have the choice of auto and manual, my choice is manual.

[john leeman]

MYSELF AND TWO OF MY 4 SON'S CHANGED A SWB SMILEY CLUTCH IN 23 MIN'S, ALL TOOLS READY AND A FORD GEARBOX ALIGHMENT TOOL & A NEW FORD CLUTCH ALREADY DE WAXED. ALL DONE. I DO RECOMMEND THOSE POWER BATTERY GUNS, SIMULAR TO WINDY GUNS. VERY GOOD.

[100ps_drw_hicube]

MYSELF AND TWO OF MY 4 SON'S CHANGED A SWB SMILEY CLUTCH IN 23 MIN'S, ALL TOOLS READY AND A FORD GEARBOX ALIGHMENT TOOL & A NEW FORD CLUTCH ALREADY DE WAXED. ALL DONE. I DO RECOMMEND THOSE POWER BATTERY GUNS, SIMULAR TO WINDY GUNS. VERY GOOD.

makes you mad when a garage charges 2hrs labour for a clutch

[MarkM]

MYSELF AND TWO OF MY 4 SON'S CHANGED A SWB SMILEY CLUTCH IN 23 MIN'S, ALL TOOLS READY AND A FORD GEARBOX ALIGHMENT TOOL & A NEW FORD CLUTCH ALREADY DE WAXED. ALL DONE. I DO RECOMMEND THOSE POWER BATTERY GUNS, SIMULAR TO WINDY GUNS. VERY GOOD.

makes you mad when a garage charges 2hrs labour for a clutch

I would have been happy @ 2 hours labour charging....I got my Clutch for 86 inc vat the two garages I tried for quotes for supply and fit wanted £350.....take off the clutch cost at a generous £100 and it leaves £250 labour therefore that is labour at £212 without the vat I seriously doubt they charge £106 per hour, more like £50 per hour making for a 4 hour book job....somebody doesn't want to do Transit clutches I think.
It is charges like this that gives good mechanics a bad name.

[100ps_drw_hicube]

we had the clutch on the blue van done before xmas at our class 7 mot station they were the cheapest at £80 per hr we supplied the clutch just a case of fitting it we got the bill £196 ish inc the vat they didnt tell us that they replaced the bolts for no reason they said they were a bit old so could do with replacing anyway was happy with that until we drove up the road no speedo juddering like mad in every gear so took it back next day to be told speedo oh well one of those things if you buy a new cable we can fit it for you £20 and the juddering ye we had a new guy in yesterday who forgot to mark your prop so we dont know where it came off and while it was in there yard we recieved a nice big dent in the side of the van to which they denied anyway wont be going there again wish we had went to the ford garage but at £250 just to fit the clutch we decided on elsewhere and thats meant to be 2hrs labour according to the service manager wish i could charge £125 an hr

[BigMac]

auto is best by far